I am planning to start dry fly fishing my local streams for small brown trout using a 6ft W2/3 rod, matching wide arbour reel, W3 floating line with small size 20 flies, however I am unsure what length my leaders should be?

I have looked through a number of online articles on leaders but most seem to refer to lengths of around 9ft which seems quite long for such a short rod. I am not expecting to have to cast much more than about 20ft or so as the streams I plan to fish you could almost jump accross!

Also I would like to make up my own leaders but am a little confused over the best make/makes of line to use for the Butt, Mid and tippet sections?

All advise would be much appreciated.

Why? Flies on small streams are the same size as flies on large rivers. A rod of 8ft 6in will be more useful when trying to control hooked fish. A number 5 line will not be as susceptible to being moved off course by breezes. The smallest and lightest (possibly the cheapest) reel will be more than adequate. Don't restrict yourself to some preconceived notion as to what flies will be best. Wait till you get there and match the hatch.

Good! Again wait until you are there and then decide and make your leaders to suit the conditions

Here is an example of fishing a small stream where the leader was deliberately longer than 9ft so that the presentation would not alarm the trout.

It is all here for you.

Now if you are keen on small uncomplicated tackle arrangements and you are prepared to be very stealthy indeed you can always fish in the manner of the Macedonians. (Page 4 explains) This is not a wind up. It is a great way to fly fish and teaches you all the things you used think you knew about stealth.

Best wishes

richard

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Who resides on the right bank of the Derbyshire Wye and is lulled to sleep each night by the mutterings of a weir, dreaming that "When the rivers and their inhabitants come first, we ALL win..."

Nicely done, Richard.

Days when I am too lazy to crawl are days when I go fishless.

I must confess to going with the braided loops to join a leader, your logic is perfectly clear why this is a convenient way, but not the best way.

I also cannot understand the fascination with rods that are so short, but I have to say, that the shortest rod that I have ever used on a regular basis is just a shade under 8 ft. Maybe I am missing something, but 8 ft 6 inches is just right for me on a small stream, as you mention.

I do beg to differ on the weight of the line. 6 scares wild fish, 5 is OK, 4 is better, and if I were able to roll cast with a 3, I would use a 3. Maybe if I used longer leaders there would be no difference, but a 4 wgt seems right for me.

Regarding the publication with the fishing like the Macedonians, the bit about banning a certain fly as an emerger rather than a dry seems a bit silly. I always catch fish on a dry fly, and often go fishless with a nymph. It is not management, it is pompous nonsense. I would worry more about taking care of habiatat, barbless hooks, good technique releasing fish, and calling it a day after you had caught a few fish, even if they were released in good shape, plus avoiding wading as much as possible as more meaningful management techniques.

I think that if I had spent my formative fishing years with a more open mind about breaking the surface film with my fly, I would have a better appreciation for how trout live. Of course, it is never too late to learn.

Forgive me, I digress.

Thank you again for a very interesting post.

Many thanks for the reply Richard and the excellent links, especially the Dry Fly Expert blog which is a treasure trove of information.

I was given the rod and reel as a gift about six months ago and decided in my infinite wisdom that small rod and reel = light line and tiny flies. A pity I did not join this forum then! I am pretty much stuck with the 6ft rod and wide arbor reel (Snowbee Classic W2/3 rod and Flextec 3/4 reel) for now however I can certainly change to a heavier line and larger flies without breaking the bank.

Do you think outfit I have will work with an increase in line weight or will the short rod cause to many problems?

In answer to Grants question about why the short rod, I have to admit to being guilty on this one. I mentioned that the rod and reel were gifts what I didn't mention was that I asked specifically for a short rod and wide arbor reel. Again my simple logic dictated that a small narrow and overgrown stream would need a short rod to stop the tip getting stuck in tree branches etc. As far as the reel was concerned it seemed to fit the bill with regard to line capacity and ease of use (plus it looks nice ).

Anyway I am now hopefully going to be on the right road for getting to grips with my small stream however any further thoughts and suggestions will as always be much appreciated.

Your outfit will be perfect. Stick with the #3 line too.

Longer rods can be very useful for extra line control. For very small streams though that you have to wade, a short rod is ideal. I love to use the long rod. But for many of the streams I fish, a 6' rod is necessary due to the cramped casting conditions and heavy overhead canopy.

As far as leaders go, practise and see what best suits you. My suggestion would be tapered leader with a tippet amounting in total to about 8 or 9' in length. Try it over grass with a wool tag instead of a fly so you can check you are getting good tunover over the leader. Remember you'll be casting short distances. This also helps you avoid drah as there is less line to manage. As you progress, you can try longer leaders which have their advantages and disadvanatages.

As for small flies, #16, #18 and #20 are ideal. Yes, match the hatch, but a range of smallish flies will be a good start. You won't go far wrong with a small selection of GRHE and Pheasant tails Nymphs. Plus you'll want a few small dries such as small parachute emergers or F-flies. Do not over complicate things - keep it simple and work on presenting the fly well.

Where are you based? I am sure someone will be willing to take you out and show you the ropes - for many, the fastest way to learn. If you're near Somerset / South West I am happy to help.

You have to start somewhere - and it seems to me that you have a good basis from which to do so. Enjoy it.

~Dave

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Dave Wiltshire

River Fly Box

Your set up will be perfectly fine. There will few instances when you wish it was longer.... but there are times with a longer rod you would wish they were shorter. And 3 wt line is a great choice.

As for leader length which is what your OP seemed to be mainly about.
YOU DONT NEED A LONGER LEADER.... THE FISH DONT CARE!
Really all they care about little bits of drag and flies that don't behave as the stream dictates. You can get a wonderful 3-4' silk furled leader from Mr trout, or Rod3 which you connect to your fly line. Then tie 2,3 or 4' of tippet to the end... whatever you find turns over for you. Look up postings about furled leaders on the forum for tips.

As for fly sizes,it does depend on the water and what flies the trout usually see's on the particular Menu.
Richards may be larger, but on ours they would be fiesta flies.Most of our naturals ( SDO's Small Spurwings, IBD's) fall in the 18, 20 bracket. 16's are as large as we get apart from mayfly time. On Small streams much of whats taken is oppurtunist food that falls in, small beetles, ants, green flies etc.

It is always best to Err on the small size with Fly choice in any case, and you will find that if the lights right to see a 16, then its right to see a 20 especially at the distance your talking.

Beware of Experts!
The only expert you need to listen to has fins on it. You need to learn how to listen to it's lessons.
Welcome to the great adventure. Small stream fishing.

If you've got them then use them BUT...

If you have a rod like the one I described, take it with you and do like-for-like comparisons in different conditions. Then simply decide for yourself which you like best.

Oh and when choosing the fly - do match the hatch. Watch what flies are about and watch what flies the fish are eating. If it is a day when there seems to be nothing in particular about consider using something to attract attention as a terrestrial. A size 12 Double Badger, Charles Cotton's Black Fly or Red Hackle can often be just what is needed and although they look enormous, to the fish they seem like an opportunity not to be missed.

richard

__________________
Who resides on the right bank of the Derbyshire Wye and is lulled to sleep each night by the mutterings of a weir, dreaming that "When the rivers and their inhabitants come first, we ALL win..."

Yep like he's going to find them in his average tackle shop.. Size 12? on a 6' 2/3wt for someone new at it. Youve' gone loco!
Try putting a size 12 over most of the fish on our stream and they would be under the bank...

Hi

Stick with the rod, reel and line you have they are ideal. People have been fratching on here for years about 6ft /7ft or 8ft or even 9ft rods for small streams ignore the lot of em and try it for yourself and then you decide. Personally I use a 6ft 3wt on tiny becks and love it.

As for leaders start with a 9ft tapered leader with a few feet of tippet knotted on by all means try Furled leaders if you wish. As for flies personally I would say say a few PTN and hares ears in 14/16/18 and a selection of dries, If I had to fish all season with just CDC and elk , F Flies and some red tags in the same sizes I wouldnt be to worried...

Take your outfit and go fish and listen to the advise but dont be ruled by it. As WP says small stream fishing is wonderful go and enjoy....

Andy



Fly fishing North Yorkshire

Dunno about the Charles Cotton jobbie but Double Badgers are easy enough to get hold of... I love 'em.

Peter Arfield at The Bakewell Fly Fishing Shop sells them, as does Phil Holding at Spidersplus

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"A homeward tramp thro' mist wrapped night,
With heart and creel in common light,
Complete content, the day has brought it,
They fished for pleasure - and they caught it"

P F Morgan
taken from the catch record book at Llanthony Hotel, Honddu Valley, Aug 1942

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