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Old 12-11-2011, 05:55 AM
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Default Clean and Unclean

I've been following the "Salmon Fishing is Easy" .
I'm not a salmon fisherman and know nothing about it. But I'm a bit puzzled as to the rule about taking fish changing colour for spawning. Surely a fresh fish will in a very short time, also be changing colour.

Kill the clean fish and you are still losing the eggs or milt.

Unless there is an issue of taste and edibility.?

I'm sorry if it is a stupid question and I'm not trying to stir it.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1 View Post
I've been following the "Salmon Fishing is Easy" .
I'm not a salmon fisherman and know nothing about it. But I'm a bit puzzled as to the rule about taking fish changing colour for spawning. Surely a fresh fish will in a very short time, also be changing colour. Yes

Kill the clean fish and you are still losing the eggs or milt. Yes

Unless there is an issue of taste and edibility.? Yes, "clean" fish in off the tide taste superb. The longer the fish is in the river the worse they taste.

I'm sorry if it is a stupid question and I'm not trying to stir it.
Definitely NOT a stupid question but I am sure it will stir things up.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Just to complicate things further [as if things weren't complicated enough]
it is possible later in the season for a fish fresh in the river to be only days away from re-producing!
Unfortunately the salmon fishing fraternity seems to be firmly split between those who advocate 100% C&R and those who are not. As long as no rules are broken then I have no problem with taking fish. For that reason I would never fish the Scottish Dee, but that is my choice and long may it remain so. If ALL salmon fishing became 100% C&R then I would stop fishing for them.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Adult salmon change their appearance from silver to darker colours during their stay in fresh water. Those that have changed to the spawning livery are referred to as "coloured salmon". Those that survive spawning again change their appearance back to bright silver as they prepare to return to sea. The silver is caused by excretion of a substance called guanin beneath their scales which protects them from salt water by stopping their bodies absorbing excessive quantities of salts. This is but part of a process called osmo regulation for that purpose. Salmon migrate to the sea as smolts and return a number of years afterwards. Those that come back to the river after one winter are classed 1SW those that have stayed a little longer but not another winter have a '+' added to their class i.e. they are 1SW+ All 1SW fish are called grilse. A fish that has spent two winters in the sea is classed 2SW and most of the spring salmon belong to this class. Really large salmon spend more time in the sea before maturity and may be 3, 4 or 5SW.
Having said all that silver fresh run fish and slightly coloured fish are taken by anglers without a qualm. Heavily coloured fish are generally returned. I haven't heard anyone ever say they would be bad for the eating and have always assumed there is a code where these fish are given the opportunity to spawn. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will correct me.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Firstly you have to ask yourself why those weird Coarse fishermen don't fish for pregnant fish in April, May and June and why Trout fishermen leave the fish to spawn in the winter.
One of the reasons for returning coloured fish in the autumn is that the heavily coloured ones are often whats left of the over exploited spring fish (nearly exploited into non existence on some rivers by rods and nets) they are now getting aggessive as breeding approaches and coming back on the take. On some rivers the season has been extended to take advantage of fresh fish running at the back end (used to be after both rod and netting season), the salmon catch would be very low without these fish on many rivers.
It seems a bit odd to have laws that force the return of these fish in March when they are in their full glory only for them to be killed just as they are about to spawn in October by some mis-informed idiot with a spinning rod.
Is it difficult to understand that returning the very old fish can only be good for future generations because if people do not then i think the seasons should be shortened to the end of June to protect these fish.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Quote:
Originally Posted by black knight View Post
Adult salmon change their appearance from silver to darker colours during their stay in fresh water
Not strictly true.
Adult salmon change their colour relating to the stage they are at re spawning.
Yes they lose the electric silver blue colour soon after entering river, but it is possible to catch red kyped cocks, and dark grey hens straight out of estuary, especially august onwards.
regards
bert
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Old 14-11-2011, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Thank you all, for your replies.
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Old 14-11-2011, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

Something that has not been mentioned.As Salmon do not feed when in fresh water(generally) their Eggs and milt come from their body fat reserves.so spring Salmon have only a tiny proportion of their body cavity taken up by Eggs/Milt.Ie, lot's of Flesh.By the time they are getting close to spawning Their body fat reserves, apart from having kept them alive for several months of fasting,is transfered to their Eggs/milt produced from their flesh,so they're is not a lot of Flesh left.and the famous redness in the flesh is reduced to a pale pink.

Jim
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Old 14-11-2011, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

bar o silver tastes better than a dirty fish as it is fresh out the sea.fish that have been in river for months lose body fat and are tasteless because they do not feed in fresh water.
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Old 14-11-2011, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Clean and Unclean

This web page has quite a good explanation of the salmon life cycle in relation to taking or not taking fish and what to look for. Black Knight has already quoted a bit of it but the rest is well worth a read to know what to look for . . .

Adult salmon change their appearance from silver to darker colours during their stay in fresh water. Those that have changed to the spawning livery are referred to as "coloured salmon". Those that survive spawning again change their appearance back to bright silver as they prepare to return to sea. The silver is caused by excretion of a substance called guanin beneath their scales which protects them from salt water by stopping their bodies absorbing excessive quantities of salts. This is but part of a process called osmo regulation for that purpose. Salmon migrate to the sea as smolts and return a number of years afterwards. Those that come back to the river after one winter are classed 1SW those that have stayed a little longer but not another winter have a '+' added to their class i.e. they are 1SW+ All 1SW fish are called grilse. A fish that has spent two winters in the sea is classed 2SW and most of the spring salmon belong to this class. Really large salmon spend more time in the sea before maturity and may be 3, 4 or 5SW.

After spawning salmon are called 'kelts' or "black salmon". Those weakened fish start to drop downstream and begin eating to recover condition. Female fish are the most likely to survive spawning because they head downstream immediately after laying their eggs. Males keep scouting around the redds looking for new females and fighting amongst themselves to mate with them, consequently the huge majority of them perish in the rivers and provide a source of protein that is appreciated by future generations as it recycles through insects etc. Kelts are very easily caught and occasionally beginners mistake them for 'clean' fish, a term used to describe a fish that has entered the river and has not yet spawned, and usually a specimen that is in reasonably bright condition. By contrast kelts and fish that are near to spawning are described as unclean fish. One further confusion remains the 'baggot' or 'rawner' both terms are used to describe fish that shed their spawn late or not at all. Such fish are occasionally caught in springtime on the early rivers and indeed some salmon may spawn as late as March month. Baggots can be distinguished by their soft flesh, distended bellies and sometimes open vents. No doubt over the years many of them have been accidentally kept as clean fish because they are clearly not kelts and indeed some boatmen were known to favour killing them. They must not be killed because it is illegal to do so. So there we have it, salmon terms fresh salmon, kelts, clean and unclean, baggots and rawners.

All of the fish photographed were out of the water for the absolute minimum amount of time to allow the pictures to be taken and none of them were subjected to being taken from the water's edge or being lifted into a boat.

Those that were netted were kept in the net in the water whilst the hook was removed and the two that were briefly beached got photographed as soon as they touched the shore (hence the cloudy water) and immediately placed back into the river whilst the hooks were removed. The practice of keeping the fish in the water is paramount to safe release and minimising stress.

Andy
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