Hello
I think about Stripping guide from Recoil - about stripping guide exactly. What do you think about it? It is made from steel wire only. I have Sage Z Axis built on Recoil guides, and when casting, I hear strange sound coming from this guide - line makes this sound when going through guide. Maybe this is not ugly sound but strange. At this moment I start to build rod on Sage ZXL #4 for dries and I got doubts - to built rod on Recoil stripping or to replace it with stripping with porcelain insert. What would you recommend?
BR
Tom

Dear Tom ,

After only 40 years of rodbuilding I'd suggest that a ceramic inserted stripper is far safer for your flylines long term .

I'm picking up odd replacement jobs at the moment in which rough surface lines and lines which collect fine silts in the deliberately positioned ( why?) slots along the sides - have even managed to cut both into even ceramic strippers but also occasionally into the blank itself ( always on the reel side of the first stripper . )

The best long lasting strippers I have encountered in my life have been Fuji - I fit them without even thinking of an alternative .

Noise in casting I like not - it is a by product of unwanted friction !

Best wishes

Steve Parton

Hi Tom,

This a recoil single foot guide taken off the tip section of a Loomis. I keep a few handy that I have taken off rods to show customers who might ask to have them fitted. This spring back into shape titanium alloy, might be great for spectacle frames... For rod guides though?





David.

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Hi Br are you sure there Recoil The last factory sage I replaced a guide on was A H&H light wire not a Recoil.

David,
This, as far as i know, is the first genuine picture posted of a worn recoil!!
Iv spent LOTS of time searching, you hear stories but iv never seen it! Most of the reports have been from guys using them on lure rods and braided lines...

Ive been using recoils on my recent builds but i haven't used them enough to worry about wear. This is very interesting stuff and it's making think about using them..

So how much use did this Loomis see and under what conditions before it ended up like this? Do you think that say H+H guides would be in the same condition on the same rod?

Cheers
Trev

Trev,

It was a Loomis that was only about a season old. I've lost the tip guide. It was virtually sawn right through. I have no idea what the history of use was. It's not the only recoils I have seen worn.

If it is any benchmark, I use H&H hardchrome guides on my own rods. I have done for 30 years. If they wore out easily I would not fit them. You do occasionally get a bad batch with poor chrome, but that is very very rare. I rarely see my own rods back for re-ringing. I fit them to rods too that I know the customer is going to putting them through some hard use. Competition boat anglers are particularly hard on rods. It is rare to get them back with worn guides.

As I said if they wore out quickly I would not fit them.

The recoils seem a great idea, but with certain lines they make a screeching noise as you strip line or haul. They set up some sort of vibration in harmony with the speed that the line is moving through them. It's amplified by the blank. It can make heads turn.

A quick google to check on the Vickers figures for surface hardness of chrome against titanium brought up this. (The higher the VHN number the harder it is.)

"Titanium is a much harder metal than aluminum and approaches the high hardness possessed by some of the heat-treated alloy steels. Iodide purity titanium has a hardness of 90 VHN (Vickers), unalloyed commercial titanium has a hardness of about 160 VHN and when alloyed and heat-treated, titanium can attain hardnesses in the range of 250 to 500 VHN. A typical commercial alloy of 130,000 psi yield strength might be expected to have a hardness of about 320 VHN or 34 Rockwell C.

Generally, chrome plated in the bright condition is optimally hard. Bright chromium deposits from conventional baths have a Vickers hardness of 900 to 1000; those from mixed catalyst baths have hardnesses of 1000 to 1100 or higher."


David.

__________________
David Norwich Rod Maker. Custom made Fly Rods.

Carbon Fibre Rod Repairs.. Favourite Fly Rods new or old, renovated or repaired.

Rod Building Supplies Fly Rod Blanks, Guides, Threads, Flex Coat.

The David Norwich YouTube Channel

I don't like snakes - but I agree with David - the best are H&H and if a customer insists - that's what I fit too and very few wear problems except with the occasional unfortunate combination of lines that pick up bankside grits and the wrong sorts of bankside grits .

I have seen new H&H snakes cut to ribbons in three months at Foremark Reservoir by a very keen ( daily) Bank Fisherman .

Maybe it is just as well that the MD of Severn Trent has effectively banned Bank Fishing there - from a ringwear viewpoint - me, I'd maybe find a way of wearing his ring piece down a little !

One silly aside - many years ago ( 38 I think) Dick Walker took pity on me and gave me a couple of his flyrods when he started consulting for Hardy . For years I'd read his pieces in Angling Times and every March there'd be one along the lines of 'It is now time to check your tackle and especially how worn your rings are - do this by pulling a bit of nylon stocking through and checking for jags and pickups - and then replace them ! '
So when I got the rods I had a look at the rings - you have never in your life seen anything like the rings on them - one tip was virtually cut through in 4 or 5 places and the grooving on the intermediates was a sight to truly behold .
Being young and in need I reringed them immediately and used them for a season or so 'til the Superlite came out .
What a prat! - Had I kept them in the original state I don't know what they'd be worth today !
But I still have his (reringed) original Grafham Ghost - I gave the other away to an admirer and very old friend of his - if memory serves that was a B.James Ultralight !

Best wishes

Steve Parton

When I was a lot younger and dafter I bought myself a Sage rod - second hand. It was a 91/2 foot 2 piece RPL 9 weight. I wanted it for fishing in the salt, and for chucking a long way with shooting heads.

This it did admirably, until one day I happened to check the rings. All the snakes and the tip hayfork were in a shocking state.

I rewhipped it using Fuji SiC single legs with a Fuji tip. One bright spark told me that single leg Fujis would ruin the action. I can assure anyone who thinks this that this is an utter load of *******s!

I used it for 10 more years up until it was nicked, and not one of the rings grooved at all.

Thanks for all answers.
I will have to think about Recoils again. My Z Axis is built on Recoil and I do not have any troubles with them, no signs of being worn or anything. They seems to be much better than original guides, given by Sage. The only thing which forced me to think about it was my friend's idea, that Recoil stripping is ugly - just wire. Sound from unwanted friction makes me suspicious, but my lines are not destroyed by guide.
I will check other guides too.
Thanks again
Best Regards
Tom

Hi Ron,
I don't in anyway say this to provoke an argument (id prefer an interesting discussion) but adding weight along the length of the blank just HAS to change something. "ruin the action" is a bit strong and Action is a subjective word but something would of changed. Being a 9wt might of lessened the chance of noticing the effect of course...
I have based this on no first hand experience what so ever but physics suggests that statement can't possibly be true...

What do the rest of you think?

Thanks
Trev