I am not normally one for having a rant but it seems to me that there seems to be a class system when it comes to the use of our rivers as follows:

Salmon Fishmen (and women) - Think they are some how more important than everyone else.

Fly Fishermen - Think they are better than course fishermen

Course Fishermen - Think they have more of a right to to be there than canoists / swimmers / walkers etc.

In my opinion our countries rivers are there for the enjoyment of every person in this country, fishermen or not, fly or bait. I am a fly and course fisherman, a canoist, a swimmer and a walker and have come under fire from all camps at sometime or another. People need to learn to share the amazing coutryside that we have and have a bit more tollerance towards people with other interests. There is far too much snobbery involved in fly fishing. I also think it is about time that more water was opened up for general public to use (in a controlled manner) as currently a lot of the best fishing seems to be controlled by private clubs or soley for the use of salmon or trout fishermen. When I was in NZ you could fish pretty much anywhere you wanted. There is no freedom left in this country any more !

I am lucky enough to be in a private sydicate which allows both fly and course fishing on all its beats, plus is very accessable and extremely reasonably priced. I think the Wye and Usk foundation have it nearly right, but I would still like to see more of the main rivers being day ticket rather than advanced booking. Wouldnt it be great if we could just wander of into the countryside and chuck a line where ever we saw some water that took our fancy, rather that being arrested for poaching !

Why did you come back from New Zealand?????
And a contradiction when you say "Im a member of a club"
Im a fly fisherman, salmon and trout BUT Im no snob.

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I will arise and go now, and go to Innisfree,9 bean rows will I have there and a hive for the honey bee.

Drunkdriver, "Wouldn't it be great if we could just wonder off in to the countryside; and chuck a line wherever we saw some water that took our fancy, rather THAN being arrested for poaching"

NO it wouldn't! You'd have blo-ody Mayhem and Anarchy, the idiot fringe would take over; and ruin the whole environment! There have to be rules and regulations; and a governing body to implement them! Freedom is a state of mind, so be mindful of the state in which you'd like to leave our countryside for others to follow!

As with any walk of life, there will always be a certain amount of elitism! Something we all have to accept!

I understand it is a contradiction saying I am a member of a club, but its the only way I can get to fish where I want. I am not saying there should not be clubs, just that they should be more open and more inclusive. Also I am not saying that all salmon and trout fishermen are snobs, but there are definitely some who think they are better than others.

Mostyn, I agree there needs to be rules and regulations and the idiot fringe needs to be controlled. Ive have had enough of antisocial behavoiur as much as the next man. I would like more water to be more accessable thats all. Too much of our great country is owned by too few people !

Well yes it would and there are indeed parts of the British Isles where you can do just that, some of them for free and some where you only have to pay a nominal fee. However all these areas are remote and sparsely populated.
If we had a free for all down here in the crowded south it would be a disaster. There wouldn't be a river within a mile of your home city (Bristol) that wasn't fished out and with every scrap of cover within 100 yards of every bridge trampled flat, ripped out for camp fires or festooned with litter (and dog sh1t in bags). You wouldn't be able to find a place to enjoy your line chucking in peace without someone walking up and asking "any luck" before throwing a stick in for their dog.
I don't really mind the canoists, there are never that many of them (where I fish) and they are no good at getting up early!


Andy

Hi, I agree with Mostyn on this subect I too do not want to see a free for all approach to fishing ..the rivers would be wrecked within a couple of years. There has to be standards and rules in our game, yes I agree there is some snobbery in fishing and sometimes I think thank god too.. at times it is needed.

Its like the access for all lark the banks with will be awash with rubbish, have you been on a beach when the people have gone home for the day..litter and all sorts everywhere...people cannot be trusted to behave themselves this will happen on the river banks as well, if I was a landowner I wouldnt be too chuffed if anglers just marched over my land to fish any water they liked...sorry I say no.
cheers Glyn
Where land is public.. good, where it is private keep it so.

Sadly without the revolution that you seem to want it will never happen and the fishing rights in the UK will be continued to be owned by someone. That person has a right to get an income from it and of course people, clubs, syndicates and others then pay for the right to fish. The owner of the fishing rights is sometimes a club, especially here in Wales.

The one thing that you conveniently forget to mention about NZ, apart from the ownership of fishing rights, is that there are about as many people in NZ as there are anglers in the UK, sharing about the same overall area of land, but in the UK a far smaller area of rural land and probably fewer miles of fishable water.

Mostyn is right, quite apart from the rights of the landowner, if it was a free for all you would have anarchy with the idiot fringe spoiling it for everyone else. The reason that we have good fishing on some rivers is exactly because they are controlled and looked after.

The situation in England and Wales in terms of access is as good as it has ever been with the creation of the various passport schemes and plenty of good water available on day tickets or through club membership. Clubs are largely democracies and have the right to decide who may join them, however most have very few restrictions and are very reasonable in cost.

Even your near perfect WUF places limits on the number of anglers permitted on each beat, controls methods and pays fishery owners for access.

I am a member of several clubs, I fish for salmon, sea trout, trout and coarse fish and I am perfectly content with the arrangement. Some clubs cost more than others and provide better water and less crowding but I don't have to belong to that club, I choose to, as I could equally choose to just pay a smaller fee for occasional day ticket or passport fishing.

That's the great thing, it is a free country, and you can pay your money and take your choice, and by the way if you choose to have a guide in the "People's Republic of NZ" you will pay about 3 or 4 times as much for this on "free fishing" as you would pay for a guide in the UK on private water.

For most of us there will always be water that is out of reach for one reason or another, mostly cost, but that's just life. I have always yearned after a session on the Junction Pool at Kelso in late October but know that this will never happen however I would rather it be that way than to see the Junction with anglers every ten paces trawling multi-hooked "flies" across it.

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“There is no more lovely country than Monmouthshire in early spring. Nowhere do the larks sing quite so passionately, as if somehow inspired by the Welsh themselves. There is a blackbird on every thorn and a cock chaffinch, a twink as they call him there, on every bush...... It moved me profoundly. I had been spared to see another spring, and I thank God for it.”

Oliver Kite
“A Spring Day on the Usk”
A Fisherman’s Diary

I have a lot of sympathy with what you say Drunkdiver, but to be honest, I do not think that your idyll is any more realistic or likely on a widespread basis than the worst case scenarios that followed. Not that its a bad aspiration!

I like the British Waterways system where you just start fishing and pay for a permit when approached by a bailiff. It allows for a bit of spontaneity, especially when away from your 'home' beats. I think that is what is really missing sometimes for me and obviously, you wish for it too.

Mind you, I am a lucky sod with free fishing a few miles drive and then an hour or more's walk away. No monsters but very exclusive! Some time with an OS map and a walk of the dog is also starting to show up a lot of potential without bumping into salmon and seatrout fishing restrictions as well.

As much as I love the solitude of my main haunts I don't mind sharing the river and find the fish rather less affected by canoeists, dogs and even otters than generally seems to be people's experience. And sure, you have to laugh when you read about the old chalkstream greats chucking in a stone to get the fish on the fin. Its quite nice to have a wee chat sometimes too . . . . it can even turn up some interesting stuff and opportunities.

Its an increasingly 'Daily Mail' country we are living in and until people can distinguish between critical thinking and critical reasoning thing's are never going to change very much because our worst imagings will always have primacy over reality and ultimately shape the way that we approach such issues?

Andy

i agree with mostyn there would be anarchy, in an ideal world it would be like you want it, but it will never happen in this country, britain is way to over populated, and its people are to far removed from the way the countryside and nature work, hence they have lost all respect for it, in country's where the fishing rules are more relxed or non existant, its usually much less heavily populated and its people have a greater respect for the enviroment

I think Andy hit the nail or the head by saying:

"I like the British Waterways system where you just start fishing and pay for a permit when approached by a bailiff. It allows for a bit of spontaneity, especially when away from your 'home' beats. I think that is what is really missing sometimes for me and obviously, you wish for it too."

I dont have a problem with paying for my fishing, and I dont mind having to buy a permit before hand from the local shop, but would just like to be a bit more free to fish where I like, especially when in the middle of no where. I wonder past so many little streams whilst hiking that are probably hardly ever fished yet I would be breaking the law if I had a go.