Here is the question for all skilled river and stream "Dry fly only Anglers"

In a situation, where the river or stream, has long slow stretches of water, some almost stagnant! Sometimes deep water and sometimes very shallow but as clear as Gin. - Q, : In these situations, what fly or e-merger pattern would you try? Q, : How would you present it? Q, : How fine would you fish your tippet? especially if you knew that there were 2LB, + Wild Brown Trout caught regularly on these waters.

Q, : Also in becalmed conditions and low water, where fish are rising and you do not know what they are taking; and everything you try in your fly box won't work, How do you over-come this situation?

Q, Is there anything you can do to entice spooky WBT when they are feeding on midge?

And my last Q, : Given that you cannot get very close to these rising fish; and need to make regular casts of over 30 -to- 40ft, how the hell do you see a size 24, on the water? or is it guess work? because that's what I use Guesswork, on flies that small, and miss more fish than you could imagine!

I know how I over come these situations!! But would love to hear how you guys solve the problems? Oh, I never go below 8x, on my tippet.

One of my club beats on the Itchen is like this, i have had good success with north country spiders fished "dry" small ad dark are killer when reed smuts and midges are about

i also fish sparse klinks and loop wing emergers, vary size and colour to match the time of year and the hatch

as for fishing tiny... use the force...

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Wait untill the light is almost gone then show them something bigger on tackle that you are confident will land them.

One of my club beats on the Itchen is like this, i have had good success with north country spiders fished "dry" small ad dark are killer when reed smuts and midges are about

i also fish sparse klinks and loop wing emergers, vary size and colour to match the time of year and the hatch

as for fishing tiny... use the force...

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Hi Mostyn

Good question mate and works well with the fast water thread.

Regarding tippets,
2lbs is the limit with me I hate leaving hooks in fish.
Bamboo is good with the fine stuff.
Its a good idea to introduce some power gum into the leader and extend the tippet length to 5 feet that combined with the correct cast should increase slack line into the system. The length of the leader does not help much for me but a longer tippet does. Obviously degrease the tippet or micro shot it

The best flies in my opinion are the old favourite the dark hairs ear nymph floating in the film. Or one of the North county spiders in the same mode dressed Stewart’s style to increases its floatability.
Also the Ffly very small again is good in those conditions. Shuttlecock midge is a fine pattern also.

Regarding takes and seeing them. I sometimes introducing a small piece of florescent material into the tying it helps me see what going on. Putting an indicator on or a large dry fly further up the rig never works too well in flat water least for me that is.

Missing takes.
Sometimes it looks like the fish took the fly but in fact missed it or more probably rejected the fly at the last point. The fish never had the fly in its mouth.

Always try a nymph even if you can see the fish rising in surface film.

It’s frustrating you can spend the entire day changing flies and putting fish down.
Every once in a while you take a fish and convince yourself you have it "problem solved".
But what you don’t realise is all you have done is catch the village idiot.
There is always one.

If nothing works come back when it’s almost dark and try again.
Or move on and fish some faster water.

I don’t waste time over difficult fish these days if they don’t take with one of the above I just move on.

Look forward to other replys.

Gary (nicho)

Bamboo rod maker

Almost forgot took a lot of difficult grayling this year with Davids smut pattern.
Highly recommended.

Mostyn, I'm NOT one of your "skilled river and stream Dry-fly-only-Anglers", although I fish rivers 100% and dry-fly 90% of the time.

Your first situation sounds like an exact description of the Tirino, a chalkstream that I fish a lot (pics below).

Successful flies have been the tried and trusted Parachute Adams, Klinkhamer (mostly olive),Elk-hair and CDC, Once and Away, CDC Hare's Ear, Parachute PT, sizes 12-18. I find that once you get the size right, practically any of the above flies will work since trout in chalkstream are used to seeing different insects on the water all at once.

My tippet is either GTM Stroft 0.14mm or Maxima Ultragreen 0.17mm, about 2-3' tied to a 4-5' furled leader.

I usually fish the Tirino either with my Granger Aristocrat 8' 5wt or an Orvis 99 7' 5wt, simply because I always have to contend with a downstream wind in the afternoons, making lighter lines a struggle.

Presentation is upstream at varying angles to sighted fish -- I don't blind-cast on the Tirino because here you can SEE the fish. I almost always start with a size 12 or 14, going down in size if the fish do the classic rise and refusal turn.

Thus far I've usually been able to raise at least a fish or two, haven't actually had a situation where nothing worked!

Like I said above, the thing about a chalkstream is that there's always something or other hatching, and like you've discovered, when the fish are fixated on black dots, it gets difficult. I've had some success with size 20-22 black knotted midges on 0.10 or 0.12mm tippet, but I hate fishing this way, so I usually don't bother.

To answer your last question: I'd leave the fish in peace! Having said that though, I've sometimes been tempted into drifting a fly downstream to them, using the little orange braided loop connector as a rough indicator (I use Moser-type micro loops) for where my fly should be, and striking when I see hesitation, although sometimes the take is so splashy and confident the fish practically hooks itself. In any case, the smallest fly I fish is a size 22, any smaller and I'd be wasting too much time trying to tie the thing onto the tippet!

To end, I think drag control is more important than the size of the tippet -- once the tippet is well de-greased and sunk, drag is the main factor determining whether a fish will at least take a look at the fly or not.

Thanks for reading, I know I've been rather long-winded, but chalkstream fishing just fascinates me!

regards,
Kenneth

Another vote for Maxima Ultragreen but at 2lb (not available in this country - God only knows why) its mono so it stretches and is very limp and will land a 2lb trout with a wind knot (experience from the weekend!). The main thing is to degrease. A size 18 para adams/greenwells, properly presented (sometimes not ginked so that sits really well down - I have just ginked the post before now - flies like pale watery spinners are actually taken when stuck under the miniscus) is usually small enough.

I have fished smaller but it is usually presentation that is the problem not the fly size at those sort of levels. When fishing very small or very late in a clam you can usually see even the smallest fly land, then pick a bubble or bit of foam near by and watch that and if a fish rises nearby - lift.

In those conditions; nothing is fool proof!

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"The sun was so delightfully warm, and the stone, which had been sitting in it for a long time, was so warm, too, that Pooh had almost decided to go on being Pooh in the middle of the stream for the rest of the morning."

www.monnow.org

We Have Some Good Replies!!

I also like Stroft and Maxima. I also lift the rod if a fish rises in the vicinity of where ever my fly is on the water! And miss a lot, even when hooked they seem to come off!

Here's another method for you! - When fish are rising but you need to cast a distance to them! Stop, sit way up the bank-side and wait, the fish will gain confidence and move closer to your side of the river, use the same tactics you would use on a very small stream, keep still, quiet and out of sight! When they're midge taking a small shuttlecock buzzer works very well, attached to a longish leader (long tippet) degreased of-course! Also spider patterns fished as dry flies work a treat!

There is also another method that I know works really well for tiny micro flies, although I have never used it, I have watched other anglers use it with great success! Tie a Klink on; and then tie a short piece of mono from the bend of the klink and tie on your micro fly! Boy it helps with the vision especially when fishing in limited light or at distance!

There are so many tactics that we have at our finger tips and others that are stored in our minds, just for those really tough days!

Thanks for the replies everyone! I agree with them all!

M

I use Maxima Ultragreen and Maxima Chameleon - not sure the fish know the difference. I don't drop below 2lb.

I've had great success recently with a little fly tied on a #18 - rabbit fur body and badger hackle and a bit of hackle as a tail. Fished dry most rising fish over here go for it.
I don't know what this fly is called, but it will have a name, I'm sure.

And then there's always a tiny GRHE fished to a rise, but sub-surface. Really though, at this time of year I've found if the water is low the decent fish only come on either at night or first light.

I'd call it a Hares Ear Spider! I use them wet and ginked up as a dry fly!