So, last year I found a wonderful little water, that seems to attract plenty of beginners and is fun for people like myself that have fished since they were big enough to hold a rod alike.

The water is scout dyke resevoir. It is stocked with 2-8lb rainbows, has a 2 fish limit and is £12 a day.

Oddly for a trout water the water also allows, Bait fishing and spinning as well as fly, primarily a lure water, some wonderfull fun can usually be had with immitative techniques too.

So why am I miffed off?

Well Ive just been informed a new rule has come in setting maximun fly hook size to size 12. Aside from the fact all my lures are tied on 8's-10's the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth.

Now id say this water is fished mainly by bait fishers and I really cannot see the mentality of this new rule, especially when you consider spinners are allowed.

I assume this is a misguided step towards protecting the fish that are re-released, along with a possible naivity on the general size that certain flies are generally tied on by the few that fly fish the water.

I have done a great deal of searching about what research has been carried out regarding mortality of fish after release and the reults time and time again come back to the same simplified result. Bigger hooks result in less deep hooked fish and far less mortality amongst released fish.

Add to this that on this water the magority of bait fisher's ledger with small hooks (around 16's) and maggots resulting in a masive chance of trout deeply swallowing hooks. Yes when ledgering with a small bait, there is a good chance hooks will be swallowed and I can see why a larger hook will result in higher mortality than a smaller one if they are both swallowed. However the naivity of people who rarely fly fish that make these rules that cover flies, really shows.

I very rarely deep hook a fish when fly fishing and you can bet when i do it is always with a size 16 midge rather than a size 8 cats whisker (big lures pretty much always result in a violent snap and a neat hook in the scissors).

Another point I would like to point out to anyone who has any power regarding this water is, as I am sure you know the beginners always fish with 6-8 lures and about 6-8lb line. They will still use lures like this, but to adhere to your rules they will use size 12 mini lures, they will struggle to tie these to their mono, so step down their leader resulting in smashoffs and fish trailing nylon everywhere.

IF you want to protect released wish I would implore the powers that be to look at how many people fish the water with no landing nets, ledgering using 2lb mono, using rods as stiff as a broom for bite detection while ledgering and wander off to chat to their mates while leaving ledger rods sat in the water. Last year whilst buying a ticket of one of the sellers on the water he had a bite and proceded to simply beach the fish without a net, onto the sharp stones on the resevoir, leaving it thrashing about while he wrote my ticket, then unhooking it and throwing it back. Disgracefull behaviour!

If you look it up the number one cause of mortality in fish is related to its handling and stress whilst out of the water, not hook size!!

Anyhow rant over, many may disagree with me but do a quick search and look at one of the many papers published on this topic.

Hopefully someone who has some power in the fishery will see this post and rethink things, the cynical side of me however draws me towards the fact that the people baitfishing are increasingly getting p.issed off with sitting on the bank blanking while people fly fishing catch all around them.

Heres some news for you, even if you set the size limit of flies to size 16's we will still outfish the ledger's as, we go to the fish not wait for the fish to come to us.

glad I got that off my chest, anyone want to provide some reasoned discussion about the new change id love to hear it

When I were't lad, bait fishing with size 12 hooks, the fish were always deep hooked, often having swallowed the bait. We're talking stockies here. The technique to getting a firm hook-up was to let the fish mouth the bait as much as it wanted, and only when it swam off with it would you strike. You'd be lucky if you could get at the hook with a pair of forceps. I couldn't count the number of hooks that were so deep they were never recovered. This was in the days before C&R. Every fish I caught was taken home and eaten. If you caught your limit you either bought another ticket or went home. I've never deep hooked a fish while fly fishing. Mind you, not tried to fish a static booby yet!

I've seen some fisheries imposing size/hook size restrictions. I can't be doing with that. I like having the freedom to fish more or less the way I want, with a size 8 longshank Cat's Whisker, maybe traditional wets with a size 10 zulu on the bob, or whatever happens to take my fancy. So I fish places that allow this. Quite happy to amend my techniques for C&R purposes. By definition - if you're doing C&R fishing you've either chosen that from the start or have already caught and killed your limit. Either way, no great hardship to forego the boobies etc in those circumstances.

I agree with all you have said, I am not a big C&R fan.

90% of the time once I have caught my limit I pack up, or take the opportunity to brush up on my technique by doing a spot of stalking using a barbless imitation.

You relly cant beat the rush of seeing a huge rainbow you have cast to, rise and devour your lovingly made imitation daddylonglegs in a swirl.

Yes make it barbless or imply rules for CandR after you have your limit, but dont limit me to what I can and cannot tie when I am fishing for the table, especially when the guy stood next to me is hammering away yanking large fry feeding rainbows out using a 3 inch toby!!!! and then releasing them after ripping a set of trebles out of them!

Guppy I'm glad that you posted although not glad why you posted. I'm not sure why but I'd got it into my head that Scout Dyke would be a really poor fishery. I used to live in Silkstone so it used to be really near my home but now I live further afield. However it is still pretty close. Can you give me some details, day ticket costs etc? Also some tips on how to fish it wouldn't go amiss. I have only just taken up fly flishing and I'm looking for a few local waters that I can fish when the rivers are out of sorts.

Conrad

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It sounds like a Mickey mouse fishery mate ,move on to somewhere else. No matter how much you diss agree with these new rules they wont change them just to keep you happy.Iam sure there are plenty waters that will provide the same or if not better sport for you and fishing next to someone with a spinning rod doesnt sound like a good day out to me

I agree with bigtroot. if you have to step over the ledger brigade and all the fish are spooked by metal lures slapping the surface, i'd head to another fishery that caters more for the fly fisherman. banning size 10's on such a water is like shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.

I would usually agree with you all about the fishery been mickey mouse. However as its quite big I can usually go right to the far end of it and avoid the leger/spinner brigade and be on my own for 1/4 mile either side of me.

Another problem is its only a mile from my house and holds some lovely overwintered fish (had an 8lb 2ounze fish last year). I wanted to try and put my point accross, (as I know the powers that be read these forums) before just saying stuff you all and finding another fishery.

Maybe wrongly I thought I could educate the non fly fishers that this new rule is unacceptable.

So whats the point of the initial post gupy?
Have you discussed your concerns with the fishery involved??
Anyone with a brain will tell you to move on from such a place, they obviously value the custom of the bait brigade over the fly fishers
Do you see rutland, grafham, chew, menteith etc putting mickey mouse rules like this together!

What an out and out selfish and dim attitude to adopt such a stupid idea on hooks...the mind boggles but you have to have a mind to boggle....clearly not all there with that rule...take up spinning and kill all his fish.

The owners are contradicting themselves . Putting a restriction on fly fishers using anything bigger than a size 12 fly is just pointless when they allow bait / spinning in the same pond . If I was in charge I would stop bait / spinning alltogether and just have fly only using barbless or debarbed hooks .
The revenue they would loose from the baitfishers would be more than made up with more flyfishers fishing a fly only water .