I was having a look at the angling instructors syllabus here http://www.aapgai.co.uk/images/uploa...labusOct09.pdf and was a little surprised. It seems to be a casting syllabus only. I have possibly missed something but I can't see where.

There's nothing about even basic entomology. I was expecting perhaps something which would demonstrate at least a reasonable understanding of the major insect groups and their lifecycle. Neither is there anything about watercraft that I can see. Perhaps that is covered in the interview or presentation stage? Neither do I see anything about leader construction, line management on rivers after the cast or indeed any of the plethora of skills that are called for in being an angler - other than casting.

Is it fair to say that rather than being a syllabus for angling instruction it is in fact a syllabus for casting instruction?

Would it be possible for someone to become an angling instructor from a background of casting as a discipline rather than angling?

I understand what you are saying but you can be a professor in all of the above but if you cant cast it is no good to you as a fly fisherman, if you can cast a fly line you are fly fishing, the rest you can learn through experiance.

I do also believe that as instructor an in depth knowledge of the whole subjest gives credability to the individual/instructor. But IMO casting is everything to a beginner because all other knowledge is worthless without this ability.

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You know the answer to most of these questions dont you?

Yes never having caught a fish in your life you can become an AAPGI instructor.

As you rightly say its only a casting qualification.

Maybe the error is in the name of the qualification? The Americans have it sorted, casting instructor certification.

Buzz. Why do you allways have a comment regarding Instructors? Usually adverse. Did an Instructor beat you up or something?
Let me inform you that in the initial stages of becoming an Instructor you are first of all tested on a.Setting up tackle ie rod, line, reel,backing,Knots,leaders etc,etc.. You are then tested on Basic entomology ie The major groups of flies.You are then tested on the life cycle of Game fish.
All these tests are written tests(not bad for someone who is slightly dislexic)
You then do a 20 min oral Presentation on a given fishing related topic.
At the end of all that you are then sat down in front of the assessors and asked an assortment of fishing related questions etc. Only then do you take the Casting assessment. Taken over a two day residential course, where you were quickly found out if you had'nt done the necessary homework
Just to let you know this was only the SGAIC assessment. Supposedly an entrance level exam taken with a view to going on and doing APGAI etc.
So Buzz/Endrick hope that helps.

Brian

Endrick,

You picked up on the "Masters syllabus"

The basic Trout and Salmon is here

The Game Angling lnstructors' Association - APGAI - TROUT & SEA TROUT SYLLABUS

It includes the stuff you mentioned

Cheers

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Chris REEVES

www.flydressersguild.org

Endrick,I can fully understand what you are saying and if this was the case I would agree with you also.Just because you can cast should not qualify you to be an Instructor.You need to know a little more than that IMO.
It is aimed mostly at casting ,but alot more to it than that I would say.

Brian is quite right and being grilled By the likes of Ally Gowans,who is a very knowledgeable angler,bull....t wont work.You either know it or you dont.

The syllabus you found, as pointed out,is AAPGAI Masters and the other is the APGAI(GAIA) syllabus.I can tell you that both have now been changed and are much harder now with more casts involved and use of both arms for casts are required for these(not so sure on AAPGAI) but on APGAI you have.
Improvements are always being reassessed and improved and If you are thinking of winging it, purely on casting alone,assessors will soon pick this up.

Saying all this,once you become an Instructor ,does not mean you are there and are "THE MAN".It is only the start of more learning which never stops,but you have to have some knowledge or the point of just being a caster and not an angler aswell is a waste of time and doesnt hold the qualification,as something which is very much valued by those who attain it.

If you can cast well, but cant do knots,or have knowledge of entomology,or watercraft skills and basic things and beable to pass this on to another person,IN a SIMPLE manner they can understand,not like on here where physics and fancy words like, power snap,stroke ,loading,drift,wrist break,tight loops and so on.to a beginner goes over their heads.

If you are an Instructor and teaching,no doubt you will get many questions thrown at you during a lesson,not just on casting,but all areas.If you dont know the answers,there are no books to get out in front of them to get the answer,it comes from your experience,and if you dont know most of the answers,Its yourself who looks silly and your reputation wont be like the green box on here but very much the colour of RED.

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Kevin

I gained my SGAIC in 1999. It was I felt hard earned and a great deal of effort went in to my studies and casting. Passing though is really just the start of teaching with so much more to be learned as you develop. I look upon myself as a fishing and casting instructor. Most clients wish to learn to cast without an overload of jargon and complicated explanation. Quickly once they are getting a good line out their attention turns to catching. This is after all the main aim, is it not? I do believe that there is room for all types of teachers, coaches and different levels of instruction.Some work mainly on rivers and some like myself are more still water based. It is a most rewarding way to make a full time living. Not easy but I would not swap it for anything. Keep it simple.

Shunned as a lover

My objection Brian is not with casting instructors. I have nothing but the up most respect for there dedication, skill,technical know how and talent. What i object to is them calling themselves angling instructors.

In my experience some of them dont have a clue how to catch a fish, They may know "how" to fish but have absolutely no idea as to how this is put into practice.
I guess its like me telling you how to fly a plane, i know how to do it but have never done it myself.

There has to be clear boundaries here and i think they are blurred. Thats not to say that both are not interchangeable, there is a long list of exceptional anglers who are also casting instructors.

If you want an exchange on my personal experience on this matter i will happily do it via PM.

Maybe i set the bar high in terms of angling knowledge and fish catching abilities but you dont throw size 8 weighted sedge pupa in two foot of water with a 7'6'' tapered leader and 8lbs tippet swinging it down and across in the middle of an early season olive hatch do you?

Like i said some of these guys cast like Gods (and i am very jealous i think) but they can't fish.

Sorry Buzz but I'm afraid you're tarring a lot of very good people with an entirely unjustified and unfair brush. I can catagorically state that AAPGAI is a teaching qualification, not a casting qualification, and you need a very high level of fishing knowledge, and experience, to qualify as an AAPGAI instructor. Not only is there a one hour written exam with very difficult questions that you would need a large in depth experience of fly fishing to answer, there is a one hour interview with three people who question you on every aspect of the relevant subject, and you are continuously asked relevant questions during the casting element too, and you have to do a presentation on a relevant subject as well, so a total of about 6 hours of assessment at the highest level. The questions can range across the entire board, from entomology to angling history, safety on a river to hydrology, and will definately involve questioning you on your angling history to establish experience. I can't give examples of questions as they might be read by a propective candidate, but there are at least three that I still haven't been able to answer even after researching them, so they are very, very hard!
AAPGAI are very proud, rightly so, of their organisation, and there is no way anybody can slip through the net who cannot show their all round ability is at a very high level and uphold the AAPGAI standard.
In the interests of fairness, it's been a fair while since I passed my APGAI trout, but that too involves a similar process, not as strict when I did it but I'm sure it's improved, and again, there is no way it is just a 'casting' qualification.
The reason these subjects aren't detailed on the syllabus is that you either have the necessary experience and ability and therefore will know the answers, or you don't.
I can't comment on your experience, or of whom you're talking as I don't know who they are, but there's no way that description could be applied to any AAPGAI/APGAI instructor I've ever known, and definately no way it could be applied to anybody qualifying under the modern assessment systems.

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