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Old 16-01-2010, 07:23 AM
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Default Safety in boats who cares ?

In a post "the problem with parton" Foosantrout made a sugestion to start a thread on boat safety. I personaly think he had a good idea. There was a couple of thing pointed out by sunkistbob that made perfect sense. Not zipping there life jackets in the surf,aproaching someone from down wind or down stream. As i said they make perfect sense but i would not have done that before i read it. I,ts the same with one in the past waders in a boat. the fact that you cannot get you,re self out due to weight of the water. I,ve never worn waders in a boat but again i might have before i read that. Climbing back into a boat at the back or front is another example. I think if any of the forum members can pick up just one thing they didn,t know. It could save you,re life or someone elses ?
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Old 16-01-2010, 07:54 AM
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Ok, it's not specifically about boat safety but that comment about waders triggered something to pass on. It's pretty obvious really but hadn't occurred to me until I saw it.

My American friend always pulls his wading belt up round his chest and tightens it when deep wading. The theory being that it will keep most of the water at bay until you can get out, if you do take a wetting. The trapped air also acts as a buoyancy aid.

Same thng would apply in a boat, I suppose. With a life jacket on, as well, you should float like a cork.
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Old 16-01-2010, 08:12 AM
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Bloody Butcher started a useful thread on boat safety here: Boat Safety Advice
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Old 16-01-2010, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royvs View Post
.....
Same thng would apply in a boat, I suppose. With a life jacket on, as well, you should float like a cork.
The word in that post which should grab everyone's attention is suppose.

My background includes a lot of non-intentional swims - Steve Parton may have pulled more trout out of Pitsford than me - but I've probably done more swimming in it, So when I found that in the angling community were now using lifejackets/buoyancy-aids I thought "That's a step forwards"...

Half right, or a half step forward.

Standard questions for a user.
1 - How do I adjust this for proper fit
2 - Does it need to be blown up
3 - Can I blow it up
4 - Can I let it down
5 - Can I blow it up again
6 - Can I swim while wearing this
7 - Can I climb back into the boat wearing this
8 - unaided????


Extra question if you have a boat partner
Can I get him back in the boat if he is wearing that?

If you want to claim a "Yes" to all the "Can I" questions, then they all become "Have I....".
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Old 16-01-2010, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownStream View Post
The word in that post which should grab everyone's attention is suppose.
which is why I used it. I've never worn waders in a boat..can't really see the point....the thought about the belt was really prompted by the thread not as being a good idea for boat fishing. It is good for rivers, tho'.
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Old 16-01-2010, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownStream View Post
The word in that post which should grab everyone's attention is suppose.

My background includes a lot of non-intentional swims - Steve Parton may have pulled more trout out of Pitsford than me - but I've probably done more swimming in it, So when I found that in the angling community were now using lifejackets/buoyancy-aids I thought "That's a step forwards"...

Half right, or a half step forward.

Standard questions for a user.
1 - How do I adjust this for proper fit
2 - Does it need to be blown up
3 - Can I blow it up
4 - Can I let it down
5 - Can I blow it up again
6 - Can I swim while wearing this
7 - Can I climb back into the boat wearing this
8 - unaided????

Extra question if you have a boat partner
Can I get him back in the boat if he is wearing that?

If you want to claim a "Yes" to all the "Can I" questions, then they all become "Have I....".
Downstream you said some thing that made me think of what i done when i first got my life jacket. It had a red nylon strap I could see it had been sewn to be strong but could not work out what it was for. I left it at the house for about 4-5 months i then learned it is a handle for someone to get a hold of you and help you out how stupid...,,, Royvs the same as myself obvious only after you read it. That,s what prompted this thread.
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Old 16-01-2010, 09:29 AM
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As a bloke who is watching the Fly Fishing market quietly collapse I think Lifejackets are a very good idea .
I haven't got enough customers to waste them by drowning !
Never go afloat without a functional lifejacket - please . And then think about it for the bank too .
A pal of mine had the unfortunate experience at Tittesworth of running out of strength in his fingers whilst holding onto a very elderly fisherman who'd slipped in on a deep corner .
The old lad drowned ! Things were never the same for my pal after .
Very Sad.

Steve Parton
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Old 16-01-2010, 09:34 AM
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Some thoughts on boat handling and safety that I posted in another thread (about handling boats in waves). A bit war and peace but hopefully it will be useful for some:

A couple of thoughts; there has been some great advice here and (no disrespect) some not so good. I don't want to appear a know all but it is really important people understand these issues, and you could say I have a fair bit of background in these matters.

1. Always, always, always wear a life jacket. Always. Preferably an auto-inflate job in case you get knocked uncoscious as you go in the water (more common than you think). Oh yes I nearly forgot, always wear a life jacket.

2. Immersion suits are highly recommended when the water is below 18C, and should be obligatory below 16C. This is standard practice in many organisations at sea. You'd be surprised how quickly hypothermia sets in.

3. There are, in fishing boat terms, roughly 2 types of hull: displacement and planing. Displacement hulls (typical wooden fishing boat-type) displace the water ie move through it. These are more stable but not as fast as planing hulls, which are designed to plane on top of the surface above a certain speed (such as rigid inflatable boats or RIBs), and usually have more powerful engines to enable that.

4. Strictly sea terminology rather than lakes, but be aware of sea and swell. Sea is the waves made directly as a result of wind that is blowing at a given time. They will vary with the wind strength and direction. The variation with strength is obvious, but direction matters too: the waves will be a lot smaller if the wind is blowing off the shore of a lake and you are 100yds from the shore from which the wind is blowing than if you are 1 mile away from the shore. The wind will have had a mile to increase the sea state (the size of the waves), and they will be much bigger. Hence the reason for seeking the 'lee' of the land ie get in the shelter of it so that it is between the wind and you. The distance the wind has to blow over uninterrupted across the surface of water is known as 'fetch'. So, being in a boat close inshore when the wind is blowing offshore is limiting the wind's fetch. The same wind speed acting across a small body of water cannot build the sea to the same extent as the wind acting on a large expanse of water therefore the sea state on the smaller water is said to be 'fetch limited'. This has obvious benefits. Swell is the waves that result from wind acting on the water's surface either at distance from your location or some time ago. These waves are the large, rolling ones that make good surf on ocean coast beaches. Remember, sea can be superimposed onto swell, creating a bigger problem than may be anticipated from the weather forecast alone. You may also have sea and swell from opposing directions, which can make boat handling difficult to say the least. Swell is more of an issue at sea than on UK lakes, but it pays to be aware.

5. Be aware of drift. Even a strech of water with little fetch will have little effect on reducing your boat's drift, and drift can be dangerously imperceptible. It can put you aground, as the wind acts the same on your boat regardless of the sea state. Try this: with your boat stationary pick two objects on the shore that are exactly in line in your line of vision. Keep still but keep looking at them and when they start to spread apart, you are drifting. You will know your direction from the way they spread. If you can't see a spread, try picking two objects at 90degs from the ones you were initially looking at; you could very possbily be drifting directly away from or towards the place you initially picked. The second 2 objects displaced by 90degs will tel you this, as they will move apart. If neither set of objects move, then happpy days. Oh, and drift can be due to wind, current or tidal stream (where applicable), orany combination of the 3. Boats with higher freeboard (distance from waterline to top of hull, or gunwhale) with a correspondingly shallow draught (depth of hull under the water) will drift more than a vessel with lower freeboard and/or deeper draught, but only when drift is caused by wind. If the drift is mainly tide and/or current, the effect will be the same regardless of type or size of boat.

6. Handling the boat in waves. A planing hull will usually have most of the weight at the back, and will, proportionally, be lighter forward than the displacement hull. It therefore follows that this boat is more susceptible to being flipped up. In fact any boat is when the weight is displaced toward the stern of the vessel. Try to distribute weight evenly both along and across the boat for maximum stability. The issue of flipping the boat up bows first and going over backwards is usually due to the wave pitching the bow up and the wind getting under it, and affects RIBs and the like particularly, especially small, flat bottomed ones such as Geminis. To avoid it, slow down. It may be that you make very little headway and simply keep your station (known as 'heaving to') while riding the storm out. Not usually an option in small boats, but keeping head roughly to sea is a valid way of staying safe. If you are taking water over the bow, then reduce speed and distribute weight a little to the rear, to make the bow sit a little higher. Running across the waves will cause you to roll, the disadvantages of which are fairly obvious, but this may be better than flipping over backwars, or coming on to what was mentioned by Grouse; the wave coming over the stern. Remember, a boat only floats because the amount of air in it has a greater effect than its weight. It's known as the reserve of bouyancy. If you top up a wooden hulled boat with kit and then add some water, the cumulative effect is to remove the reserve of buoyancy. Once gone, the boat sinks. Anyway, waves from astern. The wave breaking over the stern is known as 'pooping' a vessel, and is undersirable, not least due to the name... The other risk is of broaching, and is more of a risk to a displacement hull with a conventional rudder rather than an outboard. Running down sea (waves coming from behind you), slower than the wave speed, with the waves overtaking you, poses the greatest risk, especially if you are at abouit 60% and greater of the wave speed ie a similar speed to that of the waves. The risk is increased if the wavelength is the same as the length of the boat. The risk is that the boat surfs on the wave and the boat is going slightly faster than the wave, it falls down the face of the wave and increases speed. The bows pitch in when the boat reaches the bottom of the wave (the trough) and as the rudder needs water passing over it as speed for it to work (if you move the rudder in a stationary boat the boat will not turn but it turns more easily for a given rudder angle the greater the speed), it loses effect, as the relative speed of the rudder through the water is reduced to about 30% or less of the speed at which the boat is moving. This will leave you unable to correct any shear that results from the bows digging in, and the boat can then swing suddenly across the waves (or 'beam on'). Waves coming from the side can then break over the boat and/or capsize it. This is known as broaching and is exceptionally dangerous. So, try to head into the waves at slow speed, or travel down sea at less than 2/3 wave speed. Please note that doing this can increase the risk of waves breaking over the stern (pooping), so it can be a no-win situation, in which case it really is better to be sure of the conditions and not go out. Or, if the waves are small enough, go across them. If not, and your course to get to safety is across the waves, go up into the waves, at a slight angle towards where you are going, then wait for a lull and turn quickly down sea, and repeat until you zig zag your way to safety. This should only be attempted if you are caught out there and there is no alternative. The point is here that there simply is not always a way out of trouble, other than avoiding it in the first place.

7. Wave length is important. The bigger the wavelength, generally the better as you have more time to react between waves.

8. Always, always know what the weather is going to do and if in doubt, don't go out.

Some of this sounds a bit melodramatic, but don't take any chances. Similarly, some of it may appear long-winded and technical. For that I make no apologies; if it simply serves to make people think "I don't know much about this - I'd better get some tuition and swot up" then I will have done my job. Thanks for reading and be careful in boats. Any questions, feel free.

Oh yes, wear a life jacket.

Last edited by Bumps; 17-01-2010 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 16-01-2010, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumps View Post

7. Wave length is important. The bigger the wavelength, generally the better as you have more time to react between waves.
An excellent post full of good advice. This phrase is important as this can be very deceiving on big waters. I was out on Lough Derg (not fishing!) in a 40' cruiser designed for the sea in a big swell (about 6') and was getting a very rough ride because the wave length was so small. Even on a big lake like Derg which is 27 miles long, and even after a strong blow from the same direction for a couple of days, the wave length is seldom close to what you'd get at sea.

As I came down a wave, instead of the boat settling to climb up the next the short wavelength meant that the next wave was crashing over the bow as we were still going down.

Click the image to open in full size.

You'll not often see this sort of scene on an inland water and this was taken whilst I could still use the camera and steer, within an hour the waves got a lot bigger than this.

I was heading for a harbour about a mile to the starboard but in the end opted to go 6 miles into the weather to another harbour rather than go across the swell. I was also partly hampered by the low power engines on hire boats which cut down my ability to manouver.

The week before this event I was driving a 36' sportfishing boat on the Red Sea in a much bigger swell but it was a lot more comfortable simply because the wave length was longer and the boat could behave properly and we were able to troll with no problems despite the outriggers dipping into the waves now and again as we went across the swell.

If I'm out on a big lake, particularly in Ireland I always try to get a wooden boat rather than a glass fibre as they seem to be better ballasted and ride the waves better.

The other tip to safely motor across a swell is to slightly angle the boat across the wave and the wind will tend to push you further that way.
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Old 16-01-2010, 11:21 AM
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Something that I don't think has been mentioned is safety when using drogues and anchors in strong winds.

Drogues, particularly when used for broadside drifting should always be used in conjunction with a 'quick collapse' rope attached to the rear of the drogue. I was once caught in a squall on Calladale and I'm pretty sure that the effect of the drogue would have swamped the boat if I hadn't been able to collapse it without delay.

Anchors too, retrieve them bow to the wind, if they appear to be stuck, motor up wind and try a different angle of pull.
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