Sorry to be a pest, but I'm confused.
Now a tailing loop is this just when the leader crosses the main line forming like a circle kinda thing. The reason I ask is that some times when I cast the leader is above, yet to the right of the main line. Other times it is to the left yet still above the main line.

Would the above be caused by moving my arm on a different plain?

The casts seem to unfurl ok which ever side the leader is on.

I hope I've made this clear.

Sean

Yes and yes. The 'circle kinda thing' you describe, when the leader crosses itself or the fly line, is a tailing loop, and when the fly goes through this loop you have what is known as a wind knot (nothing to do with wind, it is a casting knot.) This will effectively halve the breaking strain of the leader material.
The leader following to the left or right of the fly line sounds like a tracking problem, or, as you say, failing to move your arm, and therefore the rod, in a single plane.
A useful exercise is to find a playing field with a football pitch marked out on it and practise casting along the touchline. Periodically, let the forward and back casts fall to the ground and check where they are lying in relation to the white line.
When they are landing on the line each time (ok, nine times out of ten) then you have solved the problem.
Cheers,
Angus

I'd put money on wrist rotation causing your problem. If you twist your wrist during the cast this will happen. Try doing it and see if this causes/exaggerates your problem. If it does then that's the issue.

You won't even feel yourself twisting your wrist.

Jason Borger's book says the thumb on top grip is pretty bad for this and to use his three point grip and it will help. After trying it, i completely agree. If feels weird at first but this grip gives you full control of the wrist.

http://jasonborger.com/three-point-grip/

Mm interesting post and replies.good points Angus and must read jason Borger about this grip thingy.I use thumb on top myself should I change it?

__________________
Kevin

Angus and Scotty many thanks for your replies and advice.
Tomorrow I will try casting a long a straight line.
The new grip works or it does if I stand in front of a mirror practising.

Will let you know how I get on

Many thanks

Sean

Kevin, try this without a rod, as you rotate your thumb to the left till the back of your hand faces you, you will feel the muscles in your forearm tighten,
now move your forearm as if casting...it hinges in a straight line, your wrist break is also restricted and you have more forward tilt in the wrist, thats a higher back cast and narrower loops in front just like that.

now i want ma book back

Not if it works, but you knew that! It's quite interesting, you should try it just for an experiment and see what you think? You may love it, you may hate it. I found it feels very, very strange at first but it's pretty cool now

Borger's book is great but will take about a year to read, there's simply too much information to take in. His curve casts section is amazing!

Zoomer - i'm keeping it

PS - to add into zoomer's explanation, make a gun pose with your hand, thumb up and index finger pointing out. Now put your hand into the backcast position with an open wrist. The thumb will be horizontal but the index finger up, this is like the three point grip, so instantly you've solved wrist break unless you pull the wrist back. Pretty cool way to make use of natural body blocks.

I will try it as we can all learn something and I am a thief for knowledge.
It was something I noticed when casting with a very talented caster and queried it and it does work but I kept my thumb on top at the time did nt try the other grip but shall give it a whirl as you dont know till you try it.

Anjisan I was not being condesending in my reply, and genuine in my reply.

__________________
Kevin

Kevin, you are never condecending.

this may be interesting or just boring, pick up a stone and throw it at a target and watch which way your wrist flicks naturally, same as a dart, the thumb and forefinger are level to give more power at the end of the flick,
then try throwing a stone accurately with the thumb in a thumb on top casting position,

i think i need to fish more

Didn't think for one minute that you were being condesending.

Judgeing by your previous posts, you come across as a knowledgable, decent chap.

All the best
Sean