Since starting fly fishing ive been watching others quite closely to see what there doing and how they fish.

What ive noticed is quite a few even the older more experienced fly fisherman cast a prefect loop going forward with absolutly beaufitful presentation, line unrolls and gently drops onto the water.

But they have huge open loops on the back cast? dont you have to get that sag out before you can make a forward cast? Shouldnt a back cast be the same as a forward cast except going the other way?

They catch fish just seems it would be less effort casting tight loops going backwords

Something i've been told from a very good caster: everyone has room to improve their backcast.

So to answer you're question, yes there is room for improvement and it would help.

dropping the rod tip on the back cast opens up the loop... see it alot too, i find i do it sometimes when i am getting tired

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Hi fishingbee,
When I started casting I was fortunate to read "A Fly Fishers Life" by a Charles Ritz. At the time, Ritz was considered the guru on casting. The book is hard to get now, which is a pity.
Ritz advocated a "High Speed High Line" (HSHL) approach to casting. He suggested that the speed of the line, especially in the backcast, was a key component of successful casting. The High Line component meant that in his opinion keeping the line high in the backcast combined with high line speed enabled the caster to make a good cast. These two things will begin to tighten the loops of the back cast.
When I am with a client, I suggest to them that they need to develop a technique similar to the "Ritz' technique and to minimise the number of false casts. I have a theory (mine and no one else's) that every false cast after the first two decreases your ability to deliver a good cast by 25%. When you are watching people cast you will see this in action.
To generate the high speed into the line on the backcast, you should pick you line up as close to the water as possible and without any slack. This ensures that the rod id beginning to flex as you pick the line up which in turn speeds up the line (Ritz even went as far as to suggest a that it was a "zing"; "block"; "zing" action). If you begin your cast with say the rod 3 feet above the water then the speed of the line will not commence until you are almost halfway through the backcast which ultimately makes for a poor cast as you will need tend to "overcast" the rod in order to try and recover and to do this you will need more false casts.
Get the picture?
What is really great is that you are taking time to observe other people's actions and by that asking really good questions like this one.
Hope this helps a little.

__________________
"A traditional wet fly addict"

Uk representative and Instructor for Fly Fishing Masters - www.flyfishingmasters.co.uk

Distributor for Terenzio Silk and Artificial Silk Fly Lines - Pay distributor retail price.

There aint no such thing as a good forward cast without a good back cast....FACT......As has already been said by the other guys, what is happening is that the rod is being lowered too much on the back cast and a tailing loop opened up (wrist break). This unloads the rod and leads to ineffective forward casting, since you have to almost throw the line out, and wind knots. Incidently, wind knots have nothing to do with wind unless they are in your guts. They are down to poor casting, pure and simple.....What you say about the guys that you have observed is true, if they got the casting right a lot less effort would be used and the cast be longer and crisper................birdsnest

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Fear not if I steal from your side, as of yore, from paradise streams to fish Teifi once more.
BN based in Wolverhampton

Hi', Phil, like I told you the other day, Charles Ritz's style of casting is what influenced me when I was learning. Cast fast and cast high, and forget about the grass and nettles behind. A lot of the anglers I see, especially on still waters, either touch down on the grass or the water behind, especially when trying to cast too long, because they have the wrong trajectory and not enough line speed. A bonus of high line speed for the dry fly man is that it dries the fly so well. Cheers, Terry

I was lucky enough to buy this book in a job lot on fly fishing. I didn't appreciate it at first as I bought the books before starting fly fishing, but every time I go back to it, there is something that now makes much more sense with experience.
Nice to know there are others out there who appreciate this great book!

Hi all,
is this the book your are talking about?
http://www.alibris.co.uk/booksearch?...*listing*title

regards gary

Yes mate, grab it you will love some of the stuff that is in it.

__________________
"A traditional wet fly addict"

Uk representative and Instructor for Fly Fishing Masters - www.flyfishingmasters.co.uk

Distributor for Terenzio Silk and Artificial Silk Fly Lines - Pay distributor retail price.

Some interesting points being made here.

Birdsnest you are absolutely spot on, you can't make a good forward cast without a good back cast and it is vital that any fly fisher who wishes to improve his casting concentrate on the back cast.

If we compare the casting of a fly with all other sports we will find something unique. The back swing requires power, probably more power than the forward swing.

Quite unlike cricket, tennis, golf or even snooker.

And the reason why we must concentrate on the back cast is that the human body is not designed to impart power into the back cast like it easily can in the forward cast!

This is why in my teaching days I used to advise beginners to watch their back casts carefully. I used to explain that the backcast is the action of setting up the line for the forward cast. And to enable the student to watch his back cast I used to teach casting from an open stance so that the backcast can easily be watched. Ability to watch the backcast also enables you to avoid snags, bushes, trees and other people!

The casting from a closed stance came later because when you are competent you can cast well from any stance, and from layed on you back if you want.