leader twist

XL50 · #1 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 09:12 AM

I had this problem last year when using my Griffiths Gnats, the twist was so bad Ive never used a griffiths again!! Well last night I was using a wyatts dirty duster and had the same problem!! Now my youngest nephew was with me and new to fly fishing he was using the duster aswell with the same tippet (stroft) and never had a problem?! Im using a different fly line and a different leader set-up from last year. Has anybody else had a similar problem nd if so how did they get round it? This has only happened when Ive used a wound stiff hackled fly!!

flyfishwithme · #2 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 10:54 AM

John,
This is very interesting since the design may have been the one I gave you.
While I was on the Eden last week, MrTrout was using Stroft had he has some difficulty with it. Basically, it kept breaking when he struck on a fish. Now Steven is a good fishermen so I cannot say it was his technique. He has since crossed over to the dark side and gone for Frogs Hair.
From what you have told me, you are mixing Orvis Super Strong and Stroft.
Leader twisting can occur for a couple of reasons to my mind (you may get others):- The fly is too large for the tippet size - common when you are casting over hackle flies or even large parachutes; or the tippet material is too soft relative to the butt section - which could be your problem.
I would try a different tip section material and see if it happens again.
Cheers

Rod3 · #3 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 12:35 PM

It is well known that if your fly has been constructed with a 'Genetic' hackle it may twist as it is cast through the air. This is due to the stiffness of a cock hackle and the form it takes up when wound onto the hook. Looking like a propeller! Your nephew may have been 'Softer' with his casting and therefore having less problems.
Hope this helps,
Rod.

rookstorm · #4 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 02:14 PM

Probably due to your fly twisting in the current i had a fly do this last week on the clyde changed it and no problem, its just as you pull off to recast it turns like a propeller in the water probably the design or make up of the fly

XL50 · #5 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 03:11 PM

Cheers for the input lads I can relate to alot of the replies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod3

It is well known that if your fly has been constructed with a 'Genetic' hackle it may twist as it is cast through the air. This is due to the stiffness of a cock hackle and the form it takes up when wound onto the hook. Looking like a propeller! Your nephew may have been 'Softer' with his casting and therefore having less problems.
Hope this helps,
Rod.

His rod and casting action is definately softer

Quote:

Probably due to your fly twisting in the current i had a fly do this last week on the clyde changed it and no problem, its just as you pull off to recast it turns like a propeller in the water probably the design or make up of the fly

Im digging the flexi out and going to try my para-loops again, I tried a Adams Para-loop last year and had no probs. And I did manage to let my fly fish farther down stream as Im a tad more experienced than my nephew and can manage the line a tad better.

Quote:

This is very interesting since the design may have been the one I gave you.
While I was on the Eden last week, MrTrout was using Stroft had he has some difficulty with it. Basically, it kept breaking when he struck on a fish. Now Steven is a good fishermen so I cannot say it was his technique. He has since crossed over to the dark side and gone for Frogs Hair.
From what you have told me, you are mixing Orvis Super Strong and Stroft.
Leader twisting can occur for a couple of reasons to my mind (you may get others):- The fly is too large for the tippet size - common when you are casting over hackle flies or even large parachutes; or the tippet material is too soft relative to the butt section - which could be your problem.
I would try a different tip section material and see if it happens again

Stroft last year and sroft this time, but my nephew had a stroft tippet attached to the knotless leader I gave him. Im interested in the breaking on hook up as Ive had this as well, but I put it down to wind knots and sh@@ happens. I may try a thicker tippet to see if it remedies it but as Ive already said the flexi is coming out and Para-loops for me now me thinks.

guest3 · #6 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 04:13 PM

Rod is definitely right about the stiffness of hackles causing twist; but I'd say it was due also to leaving open turns of hackle, producing an 'airscrew' effect; because it can happen with softer cock hackles, too, especially when using soft, thin tippet material. When Orvis D/S first came out, I gave up using their 2and 3/4 pound material, because of twisting. That was a while back.
Also, the Griffiths Gnat is a palmered fly, I believe, although I dont use it, and having open turns down the body makes it a pretty good airscrew, I'd say.
Line twist and leader twist can occur as a result of 'circling' the rod tip, by taking the back cast out to the side, then making the fore cast straight overhead, to avoid the fly hitting the line or leader, so, I presume, could excessive roll-casting. I'm sure Phil is right, too, about mis-matched fly size to tippet weight. TC

XL50 · #7 (**permalink**) 28-06-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Cousin

Rod is definitely right about the stiffness of hackles causing twist; but I'd say it was due also to leaving open turns of hackle, producing an 'airscrew' effect; because it can happen with softer cock hackles, too, especially when using soft, thin tippet material. When Orvis D/S first came out, I gave up using their 2and 3/4 pound material, because of twisting. That was a while back.
Also, the Griffiths Gnat is a palmered fly, I believe, although I dont use it, and having open turns down the body makes it a pretty good airscrew, I'd say.
Line twist and leader twist can occur as a result of 'circling' the rod tip, by taking the back cast out to the side, then making the fore cast straight overhead, to avoid the fly hitting the line or leader, so, I presume, could excessive roll-casting. I'm sure Phil is right, too, about mis-matched fly size to tippet weight. TC

Terry the fly I used had the hackle wound forward then back through again so to have a fair bit fibres sticking up. Circling the rod tip could also be a problem. This does look like a few problems leading to a major F up!!

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