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Old 24-09-2006, 02:55 PM
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Default Rainbow trout on steroids (well, creatine )

Coming to a fishery near you soon?




Meet Super Trout
Researchers at MU are building fish that are lean, mean fighting machines — thanks to a little boost from creatine
By BRENT FRAZEE
The Kansas City Star


Imagine going to your favorite trout stream and being able to tangle with a “super fish” — a muscle-bound rainbow that has amazing strength and endurance.

Now imagine how that fish got that way — by taking creatine, the same performance-enhancing supplement Mark McGwire used on the way to breaking baseball’s then-single-season home-run record in 1998. A far-fetched scenario, you say? Not in the eyes of researchers at the University of Missouri.

For more than a year, MU professors have been experimenting with feeding rainbow trout a diet supplemented with 5 percent creatine, which is used by athletes to increase muscle mass and endurance and recover more quickly from injuries.

The results have been striking. Preliminary findings indicated that some of the trout taking the creatine — a naturally occurring amino acid, not a steroid or a hormone — showed a five-fold increase in their stamina, measured by the length of time they were able to swim against a controlled current.

The day when that might translate to better fishing is still a long way off. The federal government does not approve creatine in fish that are to be consumed by humans, though the substance is legally sold over the counter as a supplement.

But researchers haven’t ruled out the possibility that the substance — if proved safe, effective and economically feasible — might one day change the face of fishing for some species.

“There would be a lot of marketability for harder-fighting fish,” said Rob Hayward, a fisheries professor at MU who is involved in the study. “Fishermen probably would pay a premium for a chance of catching fish that fought longer and harder.

“Fee-fishing operations could market that they had harder-fighting fish, and they could gain some business.”

Alicia Amyx, part of the family that has operated the Rainbow Trout Ranch fee-fishing operation near Rockbridge, Mo., since 1954, agreed that it could present new possibilities.

“I’m sure it would be attractive to some of our fishermen, having harder-fighting trout,” she said. “Trout 2 pounds and up fight hard enough. We hear a lot of stories about the one that got away. To have a trout that fought even harder could be exciting.

“But before we even considered using something like creatine, we would have to make sure it was safe (to consume) on a long-term basis. We’re careful that our fish are natural and of high quality. We wouldn’t want to jeopardize that in any way.”

But the gains wouldn’t necessarily be confined to freshwater fish. The benefits of creatine also could extend to saltwater fish, Hayward said.

“The big thing now is open-ocean aquaculture, in which fish are raised in large cages as far as 200 miles off shore,” Hayward said. “By supplementing the diet of those fish with creatine, they might grow stronger and be able to withstand stronger currents.”

Hayward emphasizes that the study is still in its preliminary stages. But early returns have opened some eyes.

Creatine was first used by MU researchers in research with pigs to see whether it could improve the quality of pork.

Hayward and animal-sciences professor Eric Berg later decided to test the substance to see whether it could improve muscle growth in fish.

To test the fish’s swimming stamina, they used a Plexiglas swim tube in which the current could be regulated.

“In effect, it’s like a treadmill,” Hayward said. “We can adjust the flow rate and see how the fish react.”

Hayward and Berg, aided by undergraduate researchers Amber Wiewel and Kyle Winders, also tested creatine’s effects on bluegills, but the results were not profound.

“Bluegills are relatively sedentary and are reluctant to swim, so differences weren’t pronounced,” Hayward said.

But the researchers found good subjects in the trout, which are current-oriented fish. Now they are thinking of testing other species, including the closely related salmon.

“We can’t say if this will ever have any application to fishing or aquaculture,” Hayward said. “We are just providing the science.

“But it does provide some interesting possibilities.”
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Old 24-09-2006, 05:03 PM
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Now we are gonna need 20lb breaking strain line if they are gonna make them like that.


Although wont that mean the fishery prices will go up.


Some fight from them though.



Martin
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Old 24-09-2006, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOCHMOR
Now we are gonna need 20lb breaking strain line if they are gonna make them like that.


Although wont that mean the fishery prices will go up.


Some fight from them though.



Martin
Most us currently use 15lb breaking strain line for the blues at our local lakes, the 5lb+ fish will snap you on anything less even after taking around 40 plus yds of backing. More like sea trout ...... the runs are phenominal ......
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Old 24-09-2006, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pint_
Most us currently use 15lb breaking strain line for the blues at our local lakes, the 5lb+ fish will snap you on anything less even after taking around 40 plus yds of backing. More like sea trout ...... the runs are phenominal ......
Where the hell do you fish Pint 4lb is the max on my local any more and the fish wont take
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Old 25-09-2006, 11:18 AM
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I like my trout to be as nature intended and hope that this kind of interference never happens.

Do they not fight hard enough as it is??

Snaggit. I have caught blue trout before but never thought they fight any harder than rainbows. They are, after all, genetically identical. Is there any reason why they would fight harder? Just interested...

Alex
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Old 25-09-2006, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaggit
Where the hell do you fish Pint 4lb is the max on my local any more and the fish wont take
A lot of the fish in our lake are well conditioned and many usually overwintered fish, tails are like tree trunks. One guy the other week had his rod pulled out of his hand by a blue, he luckily got the rod back two weeks later. Another guy got 8 fish , 3 of those were over 8lb , (8lb, 9lb and 13lb) all on daddies. Have pike in there too up to 20lb which is another reason for using high breaking strain leaders, sometimes they bite through the leader other times we can luckily land them. Don't get me wrong I use nothing higher than 6lb when using dries.
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Old 25-09-2006, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pint_
A lot of the fish in our lake are well conditioned and many usually overwintered fish, tails are like tree trunks. One guy the other week had his rod pulled out of his hand by a blue, he luckily got the rod back two weeks later. Another guy got 8 fish , 3 of those were over 8lb , (8lb, 9lb and 13lb) all on daddies. Have pike in there too up to 20lb which is another reason for using high breaking strain leaders, sometimes they bite through the leader other times we can luckily land them. Don't get me wrong I use nothing higher than 6lb when using dries.
wooooow!!!!!!! 3lb tops for small water dries.i rearly go over 4-5 when im in a comp.as for the 15lb i dont go that high for bass in the sea!!
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Old 25-09-2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diawl bach
Coming to a fishery near you soon?




Meet Super Trout
Researchers at MU are building fish that are lean, mean fighting machines — thanks to a little boost from creatine
By BRENT FRAZEE
The Kansas City Star


Imagine going to your favorite trout stream and being able to tangle with a “super fish” — a muscle-bound rainbow that has amazing strength and endurance.

Now imagine how that fish got that way — by taking creatine, the same performance-enhancing supplement Mark McGwire used on the way to breaking baseball’s then-single-season home-run record in 1998. A far-fetched scenario, you say? Not in the eyes of researchers at the University of Missouri.

For more than a year, MU professors have been experimenting with feeding rainbow trout a diet supplemented with 5 percent creatine, which is used by athletes to increase muscle mass and endurance and recover more quickly from injuries.

The results have been striking. Preliminary findings indicated that some of the trout taking the creatine — a naturally occurring amino acid, not a steroid or a hormone — showed a five-fold increase in their stamina, measured by the length of time they were able to swim against a controlled current.

The day when that might translate to better fishing is still a long way off. The federal government does not approve creatine in fish that are to be consumed by humans, though the substance is legally sold over the counter as a supplement.

But researchers haven’t ruled out the possibility that the substance — if proved safe, effective and economically feasible — might one day change the face of fishing for some species.

“There would be a lot of marketability for harder-fighting fish,” said Rob Hayward, a fisheries professor at MU who is involved in the study. “Fishermen probably would pay a premium for a chance of catching fish that fought longer and harder.

“Fee-fishing operations could market that they had harder-fighting fish, and they could gain some business.”

Alicia Amyx, part of the family that has operated the Rainbow Trout Ranch fee-fishing operation near Rockbridge, Mo., since 1954, agreed that it could present new possibilities.

“I’m sure it would be attractive to some of our fishermen, having harder-fighting trout,” she said. “Trout 2 pounds and up fight hard enough. We hear a lot of stories about the one that got away. To have a trout that fought even harder could be exciting.

“But before we even considered using something like creatine, we would have to make sure it was safe (to consume) on a long-term basis. We’re careful that our fish are natural and of high quality. We wouldn’t want to jeopardize that in any way.”

But the gains wouldn’t necessarily be confined to freshwater fish. The benefits of creatine also could extend to saltwater fish, Hayward said.

“The big thing now is open-ocean aquaculture, in which fish are raised in large cages as far as 200 miles off shore,” Hayward said. “By supplementing the diet of those fish with creatine, they might grow stronger and be able to withstand stronger currents.”

Hayward emphasizes that the study is still in its preliminary stages. But early returns have opened some eyes.

Creatine was first used by MU researchers in research with pigs to see whether it could improve the quality of pork.

Hayward and animal-sciences professor Eric Berg later decided to test the substance to see whether it could improve muscle growth in fish.

To test the fish’s swimming stamina, they used a Plexiglas swim tube in which the current could be regulated.

“In effect, it’s like a treadmill,” Hayward said. “We can adjust the flow rate and see how the fish react.”

Hayward and Berg, aided by undergraduate researchers Amber Wiewel and Kyle Winders, also tested creatine’s effects on bluegills, but the results were not profound.

“Bluegills are relatively sedentary and are reluctant to swim, so differences weren’t pronounced,” Hayward said.

But the researchers found good subjects in the trout, which are current-oriented fish. Now they are thinking of testing other species, including the closely related salmon.

“We can’t say if this will ever have any application to fishing or aquaculture,” Hayward said. “We are just providing the science.

“But it does provide some interesting possibilities.”
a bit farfeched i think.creatine is one of the main amino acids in muscle cells,it helps muscle store water retention which gives sudden energy (ATP) to fast twiching muscle cells.it is true to say that it will help endurance and also strenth but these advanteges do not last.many bodybuilders use creatine (monohydrate form) in conjunction with androgenic-anabolic steroids to hold more water in the muscle (catabolic effect),But as soon as he/she comes off creatine the water retention is lost and will go back to its normal level of energy.all there muscle gains come from the androgen and testosterone preduced from the steroids.creatine helps make it easyer to get bigger gains and help endurene with resistance training.So when the fish have a high creatine diet it will get stronger and faster and have more stamina but soon as it releast into the lake it will soon lose all the properties in a week or so.as for eating the fish that is juiced up with creatine wouldnt make a huge difference i dont think!but im not to sure on that.the excess water in the muscle would go wile being cooked so i dont see a big difference,i might be mistaken though

cheers
river king
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Old 26-09-2006, 02:11 PM
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Default Creatine

I like have taken Creatine on and off for years and sadly the effects on humans are often vastly exaggerated. It does allow you to train at a higher intensity for marginally longer.

If you built a tank that simulated strong flow then I would have thought you could condition the fish to be stronger. Creatine and extra protein etc would assist in this but it would be the tank that makes the difference and creatine would only assist? The technology is not particularly challenging although I would suggest the added excercise would actually reduce fish body mass - which is the basis the farmers sell their fish.

In other words it is the average punter that demands fat aquapigs so they can proudly claim they have caught a "double figure" (big deal!!)
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