Going on from recent threads regarding bashing stockies and how anglers treat their catch, I would like to pose the question what should we expect still water fly fishing to be. To me the pinnacle of Still water FF should be wild trout on wild natural loughs, lochs or lakes depending on you location. Now we all know that this type of fishing is not available to every one and so we have stocked man made waters to cater for a large amount of anglers. Now IMHO a stocked water should be made to replicate as near as possible a wild fishery and give the angler all the tests and challenges that a wild water would. As I see it you would need to stock your fish small to give them a chance to acclimatise and grow naturally in that water and so become as near wild as a stocked fish can be. Now personally I think the whole stocked still water culture is all wrong and has bread a generation of anglers that have come to expect alot of wrong things from their fly fishing. The stocking of large fish that are caught before the stocking lorry has left the car park is one cause of this culture as are large comps were "bagging up" is encouraged and naturally the fresh stockies are the competitors main target. These trends lead to a large turn over of fish and so not as many fish get the chance to overwinter and get wise and so the whole thing continues. Also in most angling reports its seems to be all about numbers and so a majority of anglers fall into the numbers game were if you don't get your limit you have some how failed. It also gives anglers a false sense of achievement and they think if they are catching large numbers of fish that some how they are growing as an angler. If you can continuously catch stockies relatively easy then its hard to see how an angler can progress and become a better fisherman. Also easily caught fish leads to a disrespect for your quarry and the kind of antics of our fish throwing friend in a previous thread. How many times have you heard " oh there only ould stockies " and no respect is given to the fish. All full finned over wintered fish were once ould stockies to.
Now don't get me wrong I am not having a pop at anyone in particular, just the present still water fly fishing culture, nor at the idea of stocking as personally I think stocked waters are a good idea and I do enjoy fishing them when I get the chance.I would just like to see more waters were the emphasis was on quality not quantity. What's your views lads
Tight Lines
Trout Hunter
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Trout,great to hunt,greater to release.

Visit Garnffrwd for exactly what your looking for. 2lb+ fish stocked which have been grown on site in an undercrowded pond and fed just the right amount of pellets to put some weight on but keep their torpedo shape. Stocked into a 5-6 acre spring fed lake which has vast amounts of natural food in it. Take and C&R tickets available at exceedingly low prices, so a turnover of fish but some really wily ones in there too. Great scenery, well maintained fishery with a friendly helpful owner, log cabins and cottage on site. Any need to go on as to why I love the place? Oh and the stockie brigade don't visit it cos it's too challenging for them, as the fish know that a blob is a blob with a hook in it. Some days are hard going and others nigh on impossible but if you catch one your chuffed to bits. If you get four you've done exceedingly well and will have worked hard for it and everyone (even the 2lbers) will have given you such a fight. The browns and Tigers are beautifully marked and are a real bonus.

To me that's as near to wild fishing as you can get in a small fishery.

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Location - Ospreylia

I agree. The stocked stillwaters, large and small, are a necessary evil as there simply isn't enough (or any) trout fishing in most of this island. If the wild fisheries had to take the pressure it would ruin them and those of us who prefer wild fishing are quite frankly thankful that the stocked stillwaters absorb most of the fishing pressure.

The majority of anglers want to catch fish and judge their success and the enjoyment of the day solely by numbers on the bank and not by the amount of skill required however some truly believe that pulling out a few newly stocked rainbows on a blob is some sort of commendable feat of angling.

The plain fact of the matter is that most anglers are not good enough to catch wild or naturalised fish consistently and thus revert to fisheries where they can catch fish. An example of this was a syndicate that fished a very clear pool not unlike Garnffrwd where the fish were on natural food and required light tackle and close imitation to catch them. Only two of the fourteen in the syndicate were able to catch the fish regularly and the others progressively went off to easier waters and the syndicate collapsed.

I personally don't find the usual run of small still waters very challenging and have almost given up fishing them, the reservoirs are better as there are fish that have turned on to natural food and behave almost like wild fish, but I have got to the stage where I like trying for challenging fish and measure the success of a day in the scenery, the difficulty of the cast and the fussiness of the fish on patterns.

I believe very much in each to their own provided that it is legal. The simple fact is that 20% of the anglers catch the vast majority of the fish and the other 80% of anglers subsidise the ticket prices. I'm happy with that.

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“There is no more lovely country than Monmouthshire in early spring. Nowhere do the larks sing quite so passionately, as if somehow inspired by the Welsh themselves. There is a blackbird on every thorn and a cock chaffinch, a twink as they call him there, on every bush...... It moved me profoundly. I had been spared to see another spring, and I thank God for it.”

Oliver Kite
“A Spring Day on the Usk”
A Fisherman’s Diary

Is that the fishery that is featured in the Hwyel Morgan DVDs and TV programmes?

Actually I quite often find the challenge of clear water educated rainbow trout to be just a little bit beyond my present skill levels. It would make a nice change I think to fish for some naive unpressurised wild fish. I imagine they would be much easier to catch. I would not want my fishing to be easy all the time, just now and again for a relaxing change.

The trouble with threads such as this is that they always seem to descend into the pointless "wild vs stocked" my fishing is better than yours type exchange. For what its worth, the type of fishing I enjoy most is also the wild venue/wild fish type, failing that bigger waters where fish have part naturalised and grown on and there is still a challenge and sense of achievement to be had, last of all small stocked waters. But I don't look down my nose at small waters or people that prefer them, any more than I do to people who chose to drink different beer to me or whatever - its all just personal choice and what happens to be available in your area. There are times though when wild fish can be easy to catch and stocked fish can be bl**dy impossible, especially on a C&R water when they get flogged week in week out, so its not as simple as a "one's hard" "one's easy" comparison.

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I agree with Jeff. These discussions are how wars start! Because someone doesn't like what someone else is doing. Fact is if you're happy doing what you're doing, and the other's happy doing their thing, who cares? Why is it worth the hassle arguing about something that no one actually gives a monkey's about?
I do strongly agree that any fish should be treated with utmost respect and care. I have, befor now, insisted fish be killed due to the mis-treatment of it (basically if they bleed, or do not go back as fit as they came in).
Stockies can be easy to catch, granted. So then how do you monitor your performance? Number is surely the only way. I have no preference to either type of fishing, and seek the best of both types. Which in both cases is actually a day away from life, and more importantly; the wife!!! Let's face it, the reason we go into the countryside where there are not many people and (most importantly), no signal on your mobile phone, isn't to catch fish! So is it really important?

Jeff, SB,
You are totally right, a pointless and elistist discussion usually ensues with these type of threads. However Trouthunters original points, if not hi-jacked by the 'your only a stockie basher' brigade, are extremely valid. If he is suggesting that those of us whose fishing revolves mainly around still water rainbow trout should have different expectations from our fisheries, I totally agree. I would be happy to catch fin perfect, well proportioned rainbow trout that reflected the size of a wild population. (There is even the possibility that they may provide easier fishing due to being more numerous). The real question is would it be economically viable for a fishery owner to go down such a route, and would it be supported by anglers?

I think this is a good post well made, lets just keep to Trouthunters original and very worthy point.

I think angling in general has changed alot over the last twenty yrs,commercial fisheries now provide well/overstocked lakes so joe average
can turn up cast out and reel em in.
This suits alot of people who want fish regardless of size or skill required to catch them,this is not a criticism but an indictment of modern society,people on limited time or those who want to brag to their mates.

Peace and quiet and nature are hard to recreate unless your prepared to limit angler nos and then charge accordingly,how can you naturalise stock fish unless you stop angling until the process occurs?
Think the big reservoirs give the best chance due to their size,
not everyones cup of tea but where i live they provide the best of both worlds.

Jason

I consider myself lucky belonging to a syndicate that has two lakes that are not heavily fished and are stocked from April to October. That means that the fish I've been taking over the last month or so have been in the lakes, at the minimum, six months and are feeding on natural food and are obviously the most difficult fish to catch that have been in there.

I love the fact that I can fish there and take a fully finned Rainbow in prime condition that has at least doubled it's body weight from 2lb on "real food" for a considerable time. The real bonus is that it's improving my fishing by leaps and bounds!

I've seen fellow members fish there, stripping lures while fish are taking emerging flies and blanking, having been used to other stillwaters where stocking rates are far higher and fish more readily caught.

I've always liked to fish as natural as possible but have done my share of fishing heavily stocked waters however I much prefer what I'm doing now and if I take one good fish a session, I consider myself to have done well, these are wily old fish!

There's room for all sorts of approaches in this sport, thank goodness and I consider myself lucky to live where I do now, when it comes to fishing. I know some others aren't half as lucky in their choices but you can choose how you fish your venue. Often, even in the most heavily stocked small stillwater, there will be fish that have grown on by avoiding the obvious. Targeting them can be great fun and perhaps make things more interesting but if it's stocky bashing that floats your boat, I have no problem with that either. You pays your money! .......

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Duirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite

Nature is by and large to be found out-of-doors, a location where, it cannot be argued, there are never enough comfortable chairs. Franz Lebowitz