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Old 25-02-2009, 05:55 PM
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Default Fish finders

Hmmm not sure on this one,what are your opinions on using a fish finder for trout fishing on small waters.
A mate and i visited Toft Newton the other day and noticed two chaps in a boat using one what do you think a good idea,Myself i dont think so but each to his own i suppose just seems to take some of the skill out of it i reckon but hey thats just my opinion.
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:00 PM
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OH NO !!!! oh no

I think everyone should have one.Find a shoal and then just hammer it.Im sure there will be views on this one as before.
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:19 PM
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I used a fishin buddy on menteith for a full season didnt catch me fish !!!
But I learned what depths ,drop offs and where the shelves are . Everybody to there own tho !!.
Jim Crawford
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:21 PM
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Why don't you think it's a "good idea"? You're not seriously under the misapprehension that you can just drive a boat around until you "see" fish on the "fishfinder" and then catch them are you?

Grouse
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Old 25-02-2009, 06:38 PM
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I was always under the impression that they are pretty useless for fly fishing. Do they not just show the fish that are directly under the boat?

If so then how are you supposed to "cast" to them, just drop a heavy weighted fly under the boat on a fast sinking line, thats more like hand lining on a fly rod, and most definitely not fly fishing.

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Old 25-02-2009, 07:21 PM
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A combination of fisherman's fantasies and marketing hype seem to have people honestly believing that the fishfinder is the equivalent of some kind of underwater television camera. You just drive around until you bump into the fish and then catch them, simple as that, right?

What a laugh! As I've said before, we've even coined a term for the Fantasy Islanders who think this is the case. We call it being on the Magical Mystery Tour.

By "fishfinder" these days, most people are referring to a liquid crystal recorder with a scrolling screen. In theory, these should be able to show any fish that are under the boat. Now let's be clear, I know that with multi-thousand dollar units on big-water boats operating in depths of 100 to 2000 feet of water you CAN in fact see shoals of fish. That's not what we're talking about here.

So back in RealityLand where we fish in depths of >50 feet . . . I've used these things since they first came out as "flashers" in the 1970s and continued all the way to today's LCR units and you still can't reliably use them to "spot" fish. It doesn't work that way and here's why.

1. Is it really a fish? There's no way to know, but I suspect in many, many cases the "fish" you are seeing on the screen are not really fish at all. I've never been convinced. How accurate are they in real use? It's anyone's guess.

2. Time lag and 2D vs 3D - Depending on a long list of variables, what you "see" on the screen can be anywhere from directly under the boat to 25 or more feet behind you because of the time lag it takes for the unit to "draw" the screen. The depth is generally accurate, but because of the way the scrolling works to draw and redraw the screen it's very difficult to know where, exactly, something that's on screen would be located.

Also, the fishfinder shows the underwater world in 2 dimensions so to precisely know where those "fish" were that you "saw" such that you could accurately cast to them, you'd have to know all 3 dimensions to the accuracy of a couple of feet. The fishfinder doesn't tell you any of this accurately.

3. Field of view - I don't pretend to be an expert in this, but from what I've been told the sonar beam is essentially an inverted cone. The diameter of this cone depends on the depth of the water. In fairly shallow water, the "cone" may be only a few feet wide. I've heard/read that this principle has changed somewhat, but this all goes back to the question of knowing where the alleged fish really are.

4. Fish aren't stupid. Does anyone believe you can really drive a boat over the top of fish and they'll just hang out down there as if nothing happened?

I currently have 3 LCR units of various makes and they work great. For showing the depth and the approximate contours of the bottom. That's it. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The only thing I believe they reliably "find" is structure that might (might, might) hold fish. But that's combining what the fishfinder tells me with my experience or more often than not, my guesswork, so it's as much me finding the fish as it is the "fishfinder".

These units are great for a number of other reasons, the main one is safety. I run rivers in my boats and at 25 or 30 MPH, it's nice to know how much water is under the hull before you find out the hard way there isn't enough. There are no accurate depth charts for rivers, and I've been amazed at the times I've been running 100 yards or more from shore and suddenly the warning goes off that I'm in 3 feet of water. Or less.

But as far as finding actual catchable fish, forget it. Sorry, but we caught a lot more fish back before everyone spent their fishing time staring at the video screen. Whether or not you believe what the fishfinder tells you, it still is all you when it comes to catching it.

Grouse

Last edited by The Famous Grouse; 25-02-2009 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 25-02-2009, 07:25 PM
 
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This was covered extensively before.

I have and do use several different types, depending on what type of fishing is being done.

The most typical one I find for fly fishing is the Fishing Buddy which will show you the bottom and also locate fish horizontally to the side or front.

I don't know what size Toft Newton is but it does say it's a small water.
Each to their own but I wouldn't tend to use a finder on anything under 100 acres.

They won't catch fish but will indicate where they are.

What exactly is the situation regarding their use in compettitions ? Are they allowed ?
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Old 25-02-2009, 09:37 PM
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i know this isn't going to go down well, and i didnt beleive it myself until recent events, but in shallow water the fish finder really does find fish, and you catch them as you drift over the fish marks - i was firmly of the opinions in the previous posts, that they show the ground and structure, and occasionaly fish shoals, but not much else - but recently i have been sea fishing in a float tube in about 25 feet of water, and every time a fish symbol appears under the tube, i get a strike almost immediately, in fact, i hardly ever get a take unless i can see a fish symbol - which has never happened before in thirty years of using fish finders - okay, occasionaly i have seen big shoals on a wreck and laid into the fish, but in the trout lochs the sounder has never shown any fish.

I am fishing deep with hi d line, so the fly is near to the tube, and the water is very clear, but its the first time the fish finder had genuinely shown me fish, and i have caught them when the symbol has appeared and the fish alarm sounded - i have now removed the sounder from the tube as it affects my confidence if the screen is blank- i know where the structure and drop offs are now so i dont want to use it any more.
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Old 25-02-2009, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan View Post
but recently i have been sea fishing in a float tube in about 25 feet of water, and every time a fish symbol appears under the tube, i get a strike almost immediately, in fact, i hardly ever get a take unless i can see a fish symbol - which has never happened before in thirty years of using fish finders - okay, occasionally i have seen big shoals on a wreck and laid into the fish, but in the trout lochs the sounder has never shown any fish.

i know where the structure and drop offs are now so i dont want to use it any more.
I don't know, Jan, sounds like you've bought a ticket on the Magical Mystery Tour bus. How do you know that the fish you caught was the fish that you "saw" on the fishfinder? Did he wave to you?

Ok, to some extent I can buy this because this is similar to the way we've used the old flashers and LCRs for ice fishing and I know you can see everything from shoals of smelt and even your own lure shows up when ice fishing.

But you're not driving around in a boat looking for fish and then trying to cast to them. Which is how many who are against fishfinders perceive that they can be used and thus will give the angler an unfair advantage.

You're working structure at drifting speed so you have what IMO would be the best possible situation for spotting fish on screen with a reasonable ability to know where, exactly, that fish is located within a few feet.

Also, have you found your LCR works better (as far as defining "fish") in saltwater because of the higher density or some such? I've heard this is the case, but never seen manufactures comment on it.

Grouse
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Old 25-02-2009, 10:13 PM
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Don't be fooled by fish-finders. Firstly they may show fish on the screen but it wont tell you what type of fish it is. Just because there are fish showing it does not mean they are feeding. As previously mentioned they are good for mapping out the contours on the bottom and changes in the make up of the bottom e.g. mud or rock. If you Pike fish a fish-finder can be invaluable if you are trawling because it allows you to trawl along drop offs were fish will lie in wait of pray.

As for using them in trout fishing, I think it is not as useful as it is in other types of fishing.
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