Evening all,

I've been at this game for a good few years now, but I can honestly hand-on-heart tell you that I have never seen an iron blue dun on any of the waters I've fished.
I wouldn't claim to be anywhere near an expert, but I do take an interest in the entomolgy side of things and would like to think that I could identify one if necessary (in any case, it appears that they are unlikely to be confused with other baetid species of similar size due to their supposed dark colouration).

So how many of you from 'oop north' have ever encountered these little flies? Ever found them in large quantities? And what time of year do you find is their peak emergence period?

I know they were at one time prolific on the Eden system and Yorkshire rivers......surely they cannot have disappeared altogether?


Sorry for the boring question,

Matt

__________________
The sun pushed dark spokes of melt and sparkle
Across the fields of hoar. And the river steamed -
Flint-olive.


http://northcountryangler.blogspot.com

Never seen a great many hatches myself.

Though did experience a good hatch one day last season on the River Tummel below Pitlochry.
Fished there twice last year, a few days in April, and then again in June. Though can't remember on which trip the hatch occurred!
I do remember though, that it was very cold / wet and windy, apparently Iron blues like those conditions!

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www.freewebs.com/flyfishingwales

Hang on Matt I'll just give Terence a shout.

__________________
"A glint of sun has warmed the air,The flies will soon hatch out, To lure and tempt from their deep lair, The bonnie speckled trout." SKB tackle supporter. I love Furled Leaders.

Alainites muticus is the widespread one (throughout most of the UK). Hatches can be pretty sporadic, usually in late afternoon in April and May (though I see them in small numbers later in the year).


They are pretty distinctive, and the mature males are especially pretty little flies.

Here's a relevant link:

http://www.ephemeroptera.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/710/

.D.

I believe they are more susceptible to poor or changing water quality than others. Not as many about now where i fish.

PPS

It's interesting that in 2008 there was a resurgence of Iron Blue hatches on the Monnow where they had been absent or limited for some years.

__________________
“There is no more lovely country than Monmouthshire in early spring. Nowhere do the larks sing quite so passionately, as if somehow inspired by the Welsh themselves. There is a blackbird on every thorn and a cock chaffinch, a twink as they call him there, on every bush...... It moved me profoundly. I had been spared to see another spring, and I thank God for it.”

Oliver Kite
“A Spring Day on the Usk”
A Fisherman’s Diary

I wasn't aware of the 'Alainites' genus - I'd always thought the Iron Blues I encountered were Nigrobaetis niger. Although on the endangered species list; 2008 was a good year for this fascinating little fly.

http://www.buglife.org.uk/News/newsa...wUKBAPlist.htm

'.D.' - How do I tell the difference? The North Wales variety I encounter is very dark and small (say #17?), captured insects twist and squirm their body almost as a maggot would.

They seem much darker than this 'reference' Nigrobaetis image:



PiB

They possibly are, PiB. But muticus is the most common and widespread species. Veining in the hindwing is different, as described in the link. I don't know much at all about the rare third species Nigrobaetis digitatus.

PS - Alainites used to be in Baetis.


Cheers,

.D.

Hi' Matt, I must be 'physic' as they say, cos here I am, thanks to telepathy.
I bemoaned the decline of Iron Blues during the 90s, in fact, several species of upwings ( I won't misname them as mayflies ) were showing signs of diminishing from late 80s, but I could never get the EA to agree. Their decline started in synch with, or closely trailing, that of ranuculus.
I may have mentoned my first view of the gravelly incline immediately upstream of Eden Bridge, T/Sowerby. In July 1959 I watched a pied wagtail hop and skip from bank to bank on the greenery.
The EA senior biologist, Ray Prigg, whom I have known since 1975, when he joined the old Cumberland River Board, with whom I enlisted as an honorary bailiff in 1969, so we did talk at times, but he wouldn't agree with my findings.
As I told him, about 9 very important species of the ephemeroptera have vegetation as their first choice. Now, there is no history of weed sampling for invertebrates, so I could not quote supporting data for my coming argument, and he couldn't quote any data to support his!.
What I tried to do was have my, 'tenement block basement theory' considered, but no joy. That was as follows: -- If you carried out a census of people in a city,and counted only the heads of those who lived in the bottom of the block, you would recored X people. If the tenement was then truncated, leaving just ground floor/basement, the next census would give a similar result. The weed beds were my tenements, root the beggars out, by severe flooding, choke them out with siltation, and where do their previous occupants go? They live on the river bed. As I said to Ray, and to numerous others, who could produce figures backing up their claims of no decline, '
'If you listen to what I am saying, the loss of weed could even give you a better Surber sample or kick-sample result than you had while there weeds about. Now, the bugs have nowhere else to go.''
I attened the Fly Fishing Partnership seminar in The Natural History Museum, a couple of years back with Rob Coleman, whowas then with Eden Rivers Trust, and I was elated when I heard what Peter Hayes had to say regarding weed decline. After the meeting we spoke, and he was a lot more in tune with me than the EA.
Back to Iron Blues. I have been the voice of doom and gloom re invertebrate decline on the Eden system for years, through the medium of my angling column; but as I have said to Steven, last season's hatches helped bolster my flagging spirits. We saw I Bs on the Leith, the Lyvennet and the Eden, oh yes, and on Trout Beck, Kirkby Thore. Not lots, but they were back again in sufficient quantity to be seen and remembered. Mayfly hatch was best I've seen for years, as was Olive Upright, Large Brook Dun and those of the Yellow Sally stoneflies.
I don't think I am always believed when I enthuse over the emergences of the ephems of old, but I know what I saw, and the hatches today rarely compare favourably with those of the 60s---80s. I have watched trout picking off the 5th Medium Olive in streams of the duns coming down the Eamont, for example, as there were so many in the better feeding lanes. Put your dry fly down three after a dun was taken, and you'd be ignored. Count four flies, drop the dry, and Bingo!!
I'd better stop there, as I have told you what you wanted to know, I think!!
If the text has errors, I apologise, because I haven't time to correct it. You'll all ber asleep shortly. Cheers, I hope that helps, Terry.

Thanks for that .D. I'll have to get more reference books and check on the rare 3rd species; I may risk sending a sample to Buglife as well (for positive ID). They have a dedicated research scientist mapping various populations of this fascinating insect. Reason alone to subscribe...


2008 best hatches were late May and June; they seemed more plentiful in the mornings; crawling over my hair and clothing when walking the dogs.