After noticing last year for the first time the white piping on the brown trout anal fins.It has niggled away at me that char and other species of trout have the same markings.

So my question purely interest and to see what other members think(try not to do it from wikipedia)I hope this has nt been asked before,if it has I apoligise for raising it again,if not I think it could be an interesting discussion in the warm up to the new season.

Question is which came first the Char or the Brown trout in the Uk? Or, maybe another species was here first.Or is the brown trout a sub species of the Char or vice versa.

I look forward to your thoughts on this.

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Kevin

as far as i know the char, pike and grayling are all remenents of the last ice age in britan, dunno about the trout though.

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its ok to eat fish 'coz they dont have any feelings. k. cobain 1992

no one knows Kev, no one knows.
char are officially part of the salmonidae familly, so how can it be ascertained.
bit like asking was it sea trout or brown trout first!
regards
bert

Bert

Your question is fairly straightforward and the answer is equally so. It is pretty well accepted in the scientific world that the brown trout we know today are descended from about 6 distinct genetic varieties that migrated here via the sea in the immediate post-Ice Age period. This explains the differences we can still see in the brown trout we catch. For example, the brown trout I can catch on Corrib are very different in appearance from the brown trout I'll catch on the Lambourn or in a Welsh hill lake or on Leven.

So, sea trout are brown trout are sea trout.

Did char come first? I would suspect they came later. They have marine antecedents, but as their habitat is more towards the northern areas I would think it likely that the Ice Age would have precluded their arrival by a good few years until the ice had receded enough to permit their migration. Just a guess. Brown trout came from the south so would have followed the retreating ice.

Good question though.

As long as I have been fishing(a long time),I have noted that mature wild Brownies have had White edges to their Pectoral,Pelvic,and Anal fins.I always thought it was a bit of class.

Jim

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The Fishermans Friend is the Flirty Fly,Fickle Food for Fleeting Fish.

MMm Interesting points.

Thinking about the ice age period,would the char being a deep water fish and more related to the colder enviroment,not be more inclined to be ther first in this case.

When they came in from the sea,to the river,if we were to be contentious,then we could say that originally the brown trout is or should be a sea trout and not the other way round.

just a thought to add.

Good to see others thoughts and thanks.

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Kevin

Not even with fossil evidence?

A probable common ancestor is Eosalmo driftwoodensis - fossils found in British Columbia and dated fifty million years old - Eosalmo already far removed from the more primitive Thymallidae grayling and Coregonidae whitefish.
The Pliocene fossils of 15 million years ago show Salvelinidae had already diverged and well on their way to evolving into the current charr genus and species in the Arctic ocean.
I understand the Pacific trouts and salmon split off last; with pink salmon Oncorhynchus gorbusca newest species of all and spawning closest to the sea, sometimes on the high tide mark. Sorry to go back slightly, I hope it was of help.

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Save the softmouth trout

Would have been more impressive if it had related to northern european ice ages and species of the Weichselian period/areas!
regards
bert

Why? Atlantic salmon and the various S. trutta subspecies had all evolved several 'Ice Ages' ago, not just the last one of approx 100,000 years from which there were several refuges, including the Adriatic from whence the softmouth Salmothymus of my suffix signature came.

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Save the softmouth trout

Read the question ephe. read the question.
kev asked
"Question is which came first the Char or the Brown trout in the Uk? Or, maybe another species was here first.Or is the brown trout a sub species of the Char or vice versa."
not which one evolved first.
regards
bert