The rod I'm currently using is a Shakespeare Oddysey 8'6" 5/6#, I've had a casting lesson and fly fished only 3 times so far, in part due to a niggling back injury, today was my first time fishing a lake (caught my first 2 Rainbows ) but I'm still struggling to get a grip of the casting, I know I'm not stopping the back cast soon enough but find it really tough not to

Started off awful first thing but gradually got a little better, until late afternoon when tiredness saw me getting sloppy.

Anyway enough rambling, would a longer rod, say 9' or 9'6" help make the casting any easier, I had a quick go with another fellas rod which was a 9' and it definately seemed easier but this could also have been down to it being a better quality rod, any thoughts appreciated

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Hi', RH. To check your arm/ wrist position try the following.
Stand with your casting arm from elbow to wrist absolutely vertical, near enough in line with your leg, right leg if you are right-handed, foot directly under the shoulder.
With the thumb of your casting hand pointing directly upwards and in line with your casting forearm, hand closed as though you were gripping a rod. Open your hand without moving the thumb, place your rod in your hand and close your grip, without moving the wrist. You should find the rod is pointing at about 1 o'clock on an imaginary clock face. That is where it should be at the stop position at the end of a back cast when making normal overhead casts.
Start the back cast by relaxing your grip on the rod handle ( don't try to strangle it!!) with the wrist rotated forward so that your thumb points down a little. With a relaxed grip, use your forearm ( the biceps lift it ) to raise the rod towards the 10 o'clock position, accelerating smoothly, and then tighten the grip on the rod handle and power the line up and backwards with a snap of the wrist that puts the thumb in a straight line continuation of your forearm. Your arm should be blocked at the vertical, and the angled line of your clenched fingers should appear exactly as it was when you tried the 'Thumbs up for a good cast' position at the start of this post. Never let your thumb tilt backwards, as that will drive the line down. If you finish the movement as described, you should cast high, backwards and upwards, every time. Hope that lot does not confuse. Don't worry about the price of the rod, or its length. The principle is the same whatever the rod or its action. The timing may have to vary, depending on the stiffness of the rod, or the amount of power required, but 6ft, 8ft, 10ft, it doesn't matter. If you can cast the little one, you can cast a bigger one. Cheers, Jada
PS The Odyssey is a nice rod for the money. You should be able to cast well with it with some help. Get a mate to watch you at work. I think you might have handled the longer rod a little better because the extra weight might just have slowed you down. Get a casting lesson from a good amateur, preferably, tho, from a pro.

Very rarely, if ever, can fishing problems be solved just by changing equipment.

Your problem is most likely not related to the "quality" of your rod.

Rods have different characteristics and these characteristics should be matched to the FISHING situation at hand and NOT to the angler's personal preferences. It's the angler's job to be able to adjust his casting to suit the rod's characteristics to make the best use of the rod in the given situation.

My suggestions before you start changing gear are:

1. More practice.
2. Do a refresher lesson with your instructor.
3. Fish more.

You will most likely acquire more rods as your experience grows, but as I mentioned, you should acquire the rods to match specific fishing situations that you encounter. You need experience to recognize these situations and to understand the characteristics of a rod that will make it suitable for that situation.

Until you gain that experience, keep your money in your pocket. You don't have a fly rod problem, you have a casting problem.

Grouse

Casting problem I certainly do have Grouse just wondered if a shorter rod made the learning process that bit more difficult.

Great post Jada with a good explanation of the mechanics of the movement required during the cast and the point about the thumb pointing straight up helps me understand things easier, I'm going to try that whole exercise to attempt to get some muscle memory, as I said I have had a lesson, it was for 2 hours but I'm still struggling, loads of practice required me thinks

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Hi RH, all good stuff, I have brought a chap on this year that had never fly fished before.
At first like most of us he too was going to far back on the back cast, it's an easy fault.
Within a month or so he had made tremendous improvement by doing two things.
First, he either tucks the butt of the rod into his cuff, or better still uses a small strap, which stops you breaking your wrist.
The second thing you must do for a while, is watch your back cast, each and every time, see where your rod is going behind you.
After a while you will begin to feel the rod action through your arm, and it will all drop into place.
The rod you have is just fine, a good action to get feel from.
Don't be embarrassed about looking behind you, it's the best thing for a while.
S.

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"A glint of sun has warmed the air,The flies will soon hatch out, To lure and tempt from their deep lair, The bonnie speckled trout." SKB tackle supporter. I love Furled Leaders.

If you're a beginner, get some lessons with a good instructor.

Money well spent. They will identify faults and have you casting further with less effort.

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www.paypalsucks.com

Good stuff, glad to hear that your friend has come on a lot within that time scale.

I will keep an eye on the backcast as you suggest, I did feel embarrased today as there were a few other anglers about and my fly was whipping the grass behing me and then ending up in a snake like heap a few yards onto the water, all that happened then was that I got tenser all the time which didn't help, I'm a fairly competent coarse angler but I feel like I've never held a rod before when fly casting

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Another method is to place your index finger up butt, instead of thumb, this automatically stops the wrist breaking on back cast, giving the acclaimed "stop" without any conscious effort.
It also ensures that the rod follows the direction of said finger!, and puts a delayed stop into forward stroke.
Bonus is rod, and therefore line, will follow the direction of said finger, in a very true plane.
Everyone should try this method, just to compare to their current style.
Results (feedback) would be interesting.
regards
bert

What you say is spot on Bert, I have friends who fish with their finger in that position all the time.
I just find it very uncomfortable, and prefer the thumb method.
S.

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"A glint of sun has warmed the air,The flies will soon hatch out, To lure and tempt from their deep lair, The bonnie speckled trout." SKB tackle supporter. I love Furled Leaders.

I agree.

The problem with the thumb on top grip with a clenched fist is that the extended thumb's natural position is not in line with the forearm. The wrist must be cocked forward to line the thumb and therefore the rod with the forearm. This is a fundamental problem for beginners and leads to the "Windshield Wiper" cast due to the rod flipping back to back on the back cast.

If you hold your rod with your thumb on top, your rod is aligned with your thumb and the rod handle lies almost parallel to the creases in your palm - eg, 90 degrees to your forearm. If you place your index finger on top, your rod is aligned with your index finger and this naturally aligns your rod with your forearm. If you will grab a pencil or pen and hold it with your index finger on top you will see that the pen aligns with your forearm naturally, but if you hold it in your palm with the thumb on top, it will align with the thumb.

Now let's do an experiment to demonstrate the difference between the two grips.

Make a "gun" with your rod hand (make a fist and then open and extend your thumb and index finger). Raise your "gun" so that it is opposite your ear. Your humerus (upper arm) should be parallel to the ground and your index finger pointing at 1-2 o'clock. This is a very natural "stop" position for the back cast and it naturally places the rod tip pointing to 1-2 o'clock. But look at the position of your thumb. Your thumb is pointing past 3 o'clock toward the ground. To get the thumb to point at 1-2 o'clock we must forcibly flex our wrist into a varus position which is a less natural position to hold your wrist.

This is a major reason that beginning casters that are taught the thumb on top position tend to "naturally" bring the rod tip back too far.

Those of us that cast with the thumb on top position have learned to "lock" our wrists so that it does not flop back. Those that are taught to cast with the index finger on top naturally lock their wrist in a position which aligns the rod with the forearm. If you doubt this, try to hold a pen or pencil as the rod and do the "gun" experiment and see how the way you naturally grab and hold a rod in those two positions makes the stop position more natural with the index finger on top.

That is the problem with the thumb on top grip. To make the rod stop at the correct point, your wrist needs to be cocked forward at the stop. Some students get it, some do not. Although I cast with my thumb on top, I favor teaching beginning casting with the index finger on top or side position. If a fly fisher holds the rod with the thumb on top and flops his backcast, placing his index finger on top will help to correct the problem.

If you have this problem, consider the three point grip:

http://fishfliesandwater.com/casting...ee-point-grip/

The Three-Point Grip | A problem-solving grip that can make you a better caster.

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Silver Creek- "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"....Szent-Gyorgy