To my shame, I've been getting more break offs when fishing for rainbows. Sometimes the leader breaks playing a fish, but mainly it's when I've brought the fish in quickly, I've held the leader and reached down to slip the hook - a bit of thrashing from a still lively fish and it promptly swims off with my fly still in it. (The fishery rules for c&r are "don't use a net, don't touch the fish, and don't remove it from the water".) I'm not sure whether this is problem with my knots or with the breaking strain/materials of the leader I'm using. So the benefit of your experience would be much appreciated.

For ages I just fished wets/nymphs using 3x riverge grand max straight through (9.5lb bs), with a couple of droppers. I played the fish out, netted/killed and ate what I caught, and I rarely had a break off. But then I got half way decent at catching fish and couldn't eat them all. I'd not really fished dries before this season.

By way of detail:

Dries: I've been using 9 foot leeda profile tapered leader to a 3x point to which I attach a tippet of 4x orvis superstrong copolymer (6lb bs) by a figure of 8 knot. Fly attached with a tucked half blood. Break mainly occurs at the fly.

Wets: I take a 9 foot leeda profile tapered leader (which would otherwise have a 3x point) to five feet, attach about 6 feet of 3x riverge fluro with a figure of 8, then step that down to about 5 feet of 4x (7.5lb bs) to the point. Droppers added en route with figure of 8 knots. Flies tied on with untucked half blood. I'm not convinced this actually has a significant benefit for leader turnover! Break mainly occurs at the point fly knot but it has been known at the dropper knot or the leeda/riverge join.

What do you reckon? Am I fishing too light for the size of fish in the water? I don't think this number of break offs (say, one in every eight fish) is acceptable from a fish welfare point of view.

Cheers

Neil

Is it breaking or is the knot just pulling out [you are left with a pigtale] ?

I'm not sure what the problem is exactly but I once tried a spool of 6lb Orvis Superstrong and found the knot-strength to be very unreliable - I binned it and never went back to it.

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How poor a thing, sometimes I find,
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Neil, there may be a variety of factors that can cause a break off.

However, to consider is this;

1 Are you fighting your fish harder now that you dont eat what you catch hencenow releasing them? A 3lb trout thrashing on a short line can easily snap 6lb line if the rod is at full extension and there is no "give" left in the line or rod.

2 What knot are you using? Most folk will reccomend either the Davy knot or the Grinner/Uni knot between 3 - 6 turns depending on heavier or lighter fluoro lines.

3 Always remember to moisten and slowly tighten up your knots - never give them a hard and fast yank to tighten up a knot.

4 Have you changed the way you tie your droppers?

5 is the line breaking at the knot or elsewhere?



There are many on here far more knowledgable than me so I am sure you will get some better help shortly



Benjamin

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In future, use the Grinner Knot with four turns.

richard

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I agree-had two successive leaders broken and some heavy fish a while ago and found it wasn,t the leader(using fluorocarbon), but the knots I was using. Have changed to water knots and having much more success now. Of course I,ve not been hooking into the sort of fish that broke me off either. Did manage to land a four pounder last time out so must be doing something better.

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The scenery in the Grand Coulee area of eastern Washington was worth the air fare on its own!

Try a uni knot, 3 turns for heavier fluoro 4 for lighter. Totally reliable for me.

I think the answer is in your words: brought the fish in quickly, holding the leader and a lively fish. Ping!

Perhaps playing the fish a little longer would help. Holding it on a short length of leader and it's still lively-little or no stretch available in the line because it's so short...the fish surely has a dead weight so to speak to pull back against. Just like breaking string, a short fast jab does it.

Chris.

Thanks for the responses gents. To answer some of the questions:

- yes, I'm playing the fish less because it's being put back
- yes, definitely no give in the line at the critical moment, though it sometimes happens during the normal "bringing it in" period so that can't be the whole story
- it's breaking at the knot - no pigtails - mainly at the hook join so it's possible that the dropper breaks were aberations
- droppers - I used blood knots when I was using nylon and they were fine. Terrible with fluro though. I changed to a water/surgeons knot and then to a figure of eight - both better than the blood knot (and easier/quicker to tie too - bonus). Funnily enough, I've never had a figure eight loop or a perfection loop for leader/line connection fail on me
- I always wet the knots very thoroughly when tying and tighten slowly. Mind you, sometimes the leader is a bit crinkly so maybe I'm not doing it enough

So it sounds like a combination of things but the responses have focussed my mind and I now have a plan of campaign: I'll try the Uni/Grinner knot instead, try changing to a different brand of copolymer for the dries (thought this may need to wait for the spring for proper testing), I'll carry out some testing with wetness/speed at home, and if I'm still having trouble I think I'll beef up the material. And if all that doesn't work, I'll be playing the fish a bit more.

Thanks again,

Neil

If you use a uni knot for copoly use 4 or 5 turns otherwise it will slip. I learnt that the hard way. 3 turns is plenty for fluoro.