ok i have been reading lots and not sure if i have fully understood this bit ..

firstly with respect im not after in depth debate about pro's and cons just simple answers , i can read up myself then ..

my understanding was that if fishing a dry fly i want the leader and tippit to float , now after reading around seems this may not be the case..

wet flies/nymphs i was under the impression i wanted the tippit and leader to sink .. again i could have it wrong

so i need to know

1, fishing a dry , do i want the leader to float ASWELL as the tippit

OR

leader to float , tippit to be sub surface.

leader and tippit sub surface


2, fishing a wet/nymph, i know i want the tippit to sink but do i want the leader to sink also ?

Having tried sunk and floating over the years, I prefer my tippet to float, especially on rivers.

richard

__________________
Who resides on the right bank of the Derbyshire Wye and is lulled to sleep each night by the mutterings of a weir, dreaming that "When the rivers and their inhabitants come first, we ALL win..."

Ooh, you're in for a treat! Bring on the conflicting answers...

Wet flies - I like everything to sink. I don't differentiate between leader and tippet - I usually just fish a level leader. Unless I want the flies to fish near the surface, then I might try keeping some of it afloat.

Dry flies - on stillwaters - with a bit of a ripple or a wave - I'll just want my tippet to sink. If the whole leader sinks then it's more likely to take the fly down.

Dry flies - on stillwaters - in a flat calm - I'll want all of my tippet and a goodly part of my leader to sink. Many's the time I've seen fish come up and look at a fly then turn away. Later, they'll take it confidently. And the only difference has been whether or not there's an obvious line on the surface of the water caused by the tippet or leader.

Rivers? I know better than to advance an opinion. I'm still learning...

Neil

nice one chaps.. that's the sort of thing i was looking for ..

@ shpeil i take it a level leader is just that, a leader of uniform thickness ?

On rivers Dry flys ...tippet to float without a doubt , unless proven wrong.

Cheers
Spencer

There are three main considerations - leader/tippet visibility, drag on the fly, and the wariness of the fish to the leader/tippet.

In calm waters leaders are more visible when they are floating. They depress the surface film and this depression of the film changes the angle of refraction of the sunlight through the surface. So floating tippets are more visible than sunken tippets.

None of this matters if the fish do not react to the visible tippets and leaders. This is where the wariness of the fish becomes important. Calm and clear still waters and rivers whose waters that are heavily fished generally contain the most wary fish, and the largest of these fish seem to be the ones that are the most difficult to fool.

So if the fish are such that they react to visible leaders, then a sunken fluorocarbon tippet and possible the entire leader can be very important.

The final issue is drag and natural behavior. There are some occasions when purposeful drag such as the Leisenring Lift of a caddis pupa or the twitch of a capering caddis dry can entice a take. These movements of the fly that mimic the behavior of insects can act as a trigger that convinces the fish that your imitation is alive. Only living things can move against the current.

However, when the behavior of the natural is a dead drift, then external tension by the tippet on or drag on the fly is the enemy. Some fly fishers hold the mistaken belief that a segment of leader, tippet or fly line that is just under the water surface somehow induces drag. There is no super current under the water surface that magically traps the sunken leader and pulls on the fly. The water just under the surface moves in the same direction and at just about the same speed as the surface layer. What negates drag is slack leader and tippet material that absorbs the differential flows so that the tippet cannot pull or drag on the fly. It is the lack of a proper cast and line mending that reduces a drag free float, not a floating tippet.

What does differ between a floating and sunken leader, is that a sunken leader is more difficult for us to see, and therefore, it is more difficult for us to predict when drag will occur. The sunken leader/tippet also attracts more attention on the pick up because there is a greater surface disturbance when we lift the leader from just under the surface rather than from the surface. Similarly a sunken leader makes mending the leader without excessively disturbing the water very difficult.

Bottom line, there is no pat answer. A sunken leader for dry flies does not matter until it does matter. Experience will tell you whether and when it makes it difference in your fishing. A floating leader makes judging the differential water currents easier because you can see the effect of the current on the floating leader. However, when the floating leader prevents me from hooking the biggest fish, I will start by lengthening the leader and sinking the tippet.

__________________
Silver Creek- "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"....Szent-Gyorgy

For me the tippet should always be sunk to a dry fly. That is unless the last few inches can be raised above the surface without drag!

__________________
"Angling may be said to be so like mathematics in that it can never be fully understood" - Izaak Walton

Yes - uniform thickness, no taper. I've recently experimented with tapered leaders in a team of wet flies/nymphs/buzzers and haven't noticed any particular advantages for leader turnover. Mind you, I do tend to arrange my flies in a way that helps turnover e.g. heaviest on the point.

I consistently find that sunk tippets make a positive difference when using dries. Especially in bright weather or shallow water. This stands to reason, and i agree re the current - i'm not aware of a stronger current underneath the surface? If this was the case , large sunken abbomen flies like Klinks would be affected greatly by subsurface drag and be less successful due to drag. Yet Klinks are considered by many to be the very best dry flies ever invented.

The only time i get away with not sinking tippet is on rougher water.

How to sink it consistently - thats another confusing story!!

__________________
Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of God.