I am new to trout river fishing and am confused by the "classification" of some of the flies. I have been told that a Klinkhammer is not permitted to be used on a dry fly water as it is an emerger, I have since seen posts from people using parachute adams on the same water. The two flies to me look as though they would fish in pretty much the same way (I haven't used an adams), they both have a flat hackle above the body of the fly so I would asume that the body of both flies would sit in the surface film and not on top of it making them both emergers ?

Doeas anyone know if there are any generally accepted "rules" for determining whether or not a fly is a "dry" ? I don't want to fall foul of any "dry fly ony" rules, but also don't want to miss out on using a fish catching pattern

An easy way to tell is if the fly fishes with more than half of it under the surface then it isn't a dry fly. Sitting in the meniscus is fine. If in doubt drop your fly in a glass of water and look at it from the side.

Here's an emerger:



Here's a dry fly with parachute hackle:



Note the different hook shape and the presence of a tail in the dry fly.

richard

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Who resides on the right bank of the Derbyshire Wye and is lulled to sleep each night by the mutterings of a weir, dreaming that "When the rivers and their inhabitants come first, we ALL win..."

Thanks alot Richard - looking at the two I'm guessing that the tail on the adams would keep the back end of the body on or at the surface whilst the lack of a tail on the emerger means that it sits well below

If it is a dry or emerger, has more to do with the life cycle stage of the insect that you are imitating. Typically, a dry fly imitates an adult, and an emerger, imitates...an emerger, or the stage where the nymph rises to the surface, and "emerges" from the nymphal skin. Some insects emerge under the surface and others emerge above the surface.
I think the rule applies to floating or sinking flies, and as such, a klinkie is a floating fly. It is surface fishing, and I don't think that the positioning of the hook has a great bearing on the subject. To me, a klinkie is a dry fly, because it is designed to float on the surface. It is a generic fly and therfore imitates nothing in particular. It could limitate an emerger, or is could imitate an adult. It works when fish eat on the surface, and it works when fish are feeding in the film. I think that when they say, "no emerger fishing", they are probably refering to sub surface emerger immitations, such as wet flies and soft hackle flies.

Spot on!

richard

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

It is not designed to float on the surface. It is designed to float with more than half of the fly under the surface. It is a wet fly not a dry fly. It was originally tied to represent emerging sedge flies. Certainly on the dry fly waters I frequent they are classed strictly as emergers and are not permitted under any circumstances.

richard

__________________
Who resides on the right bank of the Derbyshire Wye and is lulled to sleep each night by the mutterings of a weir, dreaming that "When the rivers and their inhabitants come first, we ALL win..."

Thats often the case with most patterns, there are for example patterns with tails that do become emergers,Spinners with yarn wings sit under the surface regardless of how much gink is applied or heavily dressed mayfly patterns where the sheer bulk of the fly and heavy hook drag 2/3rds of the fly under the meniscus. TBH its all a pile of crock, granted a curved hook could go under the surface but it would be folly to think anything with a straight shank sits flush.

Putting your fly in a glass of water does nothing to replicate "real life" fishing, all that jiggling about, currents, riffles etc can often drag a dry fly partially or completely under, hell even a bad cast can make a dry fly a wet fly. The best thing to do is establish from the fishery itself what patterns are deemed to be dry.

Thanks to everyone for the answers, I have fished still waters alot but only had one day on the river so am a proper novice there.

I had asked the specific question re Klinks and not "emergers" at the fishery last time I was there as I had considered them "dry" before I went. Klinks were subsequently removed from the "dry areas of my fly boxes" to avoid any confusion. I have ordered a stock of Parachute Adams to add in their place.

All the other flies I have with the possible exception of F Flies are clearly dry and F Flies do seem to be allowed.

Of course any fly can be made to sink and fished as a wet fly. That isn't a concern because you naturally pick the fly off if it has sunk to avoid any fish taking it whilst it was in the water like this. The starting point has to be in the design of the fly, hence the difference illustrated in the earlier post.

Yarn winged spinners do actually sit on the surface rather than under it. If they went under it they would simply sink.



The above is an example of such a fly that stays on the meniscus, supported by its yarn wings and splayed hackle fibre tail, it only goes under the surface if it is dragged under. In such cases a lift off, two or three false casts and it is dry and ready to float all over again.

richard

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Who resides on the right bank of the Derbyshire Wye and is lulled to sleep each night by the mutterings of a weir, dreaming that "When the rivers and their inhabitants come first, we ALL win..."

Dave, Richard is very much in the minority of 2 on the forum when it comes to klinks and their ilk not being classified as a dry and is totally and utterly dogmatic on the exact percentage of what constitutes a dry fly: 50% not submerged is his rule I think.

However, when you are fishing ask what the rules are on curved hooked dries for where you are wetting a line and you won't go wrong.

Otherwise, the generally accepted rule, by a huge majority, is if it's visibly on or in the surface, it's a dry.

Ardbeg

You are only cheating yourself Richard.