Let me start by making something clear, explicit if you like. This thread is not about stillwater v stream, wild v stocked, put and take v reservoir or whatever type of fishery you may prefer or have access to. This thread has been prompted, initially by visits to Dever Springs and Avington on successive days at the beginning of the month, and secondly as a result of listening to a very considered presentation at the BFFI by Andy Baird (Small Fly Funk ... Small Fly Funk ).

I had two very enjoyable days at Dever and Avington, well an afternoon and a morning session. Both venues were very welcoming, had some great facilities and were very well ‘presented’. In this respect the fishing was comfortable and ‘easy’ in contrast with my normal experience of being windswept on large stillwaters or scrambling up and down the banks of small streams through thorns and nettles. Now being of a certain age, this came as a pleasant diversion as at the end of each session I didn’t feel as if I’d been involved in a pub brawl.

But the fish ... The first fish I caught at Dever was the second one down from the top of the first picture. It weighed 13lb and looked like it had swallowed a beachball. I saw it swimming by, dropped a mayfly nymph in front of it, it opened and shut its mouth and I lifted into it. It rolled on the surface and I pulled it over the net ... end of story. I can say that in all honesty it was the ugliest fish I’ve ever caught. A short while later I caught another at 5lb 2oz. The remaining four fish, including the very thin, 3lb 12oz brown, in the picture were caught at Avington the next morning.



As I’ve said, I did enjoy my time at both venues but I was left with some nagging doubts about what I’d ‘enjoyed’ and to a certain degree, a level of embarrassment about the fish.

Move forward to the BFFI and the presentation by Andy Baird, a guy who focuses on fishing flies of size 20 and below but that’s by the by. He talked about the aesthetics of his fishing, about responsibility and in some ways, honesty.

In a very roundabout and rambling way, I’ve now arrived at my point. What has our fishing come to? I’m left with what is a moral dilemma, should we be comfortable putting fish into environments that can’t sustain them? Look at the brown trout in the top picture – it should have weighed about 2lb more than it did. It was a survivor from the previous year’s stocking and had been losing condition over time. Where is the responsibility in that, the aesthetics or indeed the sustainability? Compare it to the brown trout in the second picture and ask the same questions.




Obviously, all fisheries are, to varying degrees, commercial enterprises and respond to demand from customers. I can’t help but think that we, as customers, must hold our hands up and take responsibility for driving our ‘fishing’ towards some very undesirable outcomes.

__________________
[I]"I still don't know why I fish or why other men fish, except that we like it and it makes us think and feel."[/I] Roderick L Haig-Brown

[url]www.wildfly.net[/url]

[url]http://www.gameanglinginstructors.co.uk/[/url]

Used to fish fish both Dever and Avington on a regular basis when i lived in Kent a few yrs ago and i can assure you that that wasn't there regular quality of fish by a long shot.Maybe things have changed a lot since i last went i dunno,the browns and bows in Dever where a thing of beauty

Neil

I am sorry you encountered some poor quality fish which has tarnished your opinion of these fisheries. I fish Avington regularly, and last year averaged 13lb per fish. i can honestly say that they were all in spectacular condition, jumping and making long boring runs. some of the fish took me deep into the backing before jumping several times. not one 'rolled over into the net'!

Personally i think these places serve a purpose for those of us that liek to see our fish, and target individual fish, i never understand why someone will come to Avington and cast blind?!

I fish large stillwaters too, and throrougly enjoy their (different) challenge. i would argue that in the right day, Grafham and Rutland are just as 'easy' as Avington, particularly the residents there. (your long brown is probably the year before last's given its size)

Wild streams also serve their purpose and can be huge fun. personally however, i don't like catching hundreds of quarter pound fish and don't consider them any more difficult to catch on either. The most difficult fishing i've ever experienced was my tiny syndicate chalkstream. when the water's low those fish are more skittish than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs! stockies yes, bloody impossible too!!

Cheers
Alex

I stay away from the big fish waters unless there is a specific invite (e.g corporate). Partly its because of the aesthetics but also I do not want 40lb of trout in the freezer that is not particularly good eating quality.

Most of my time now is spent on the small streams but when I do go to the stillwaters, either for a social with friends, to top up the freezer or taking my youngest lad out, I tend to go to places with smaller, fitter fish and scale the tackle to suit.

I think most people want to get the double figure fish out of their system and these fisheries have a market. For me the attraction was short lived.

If the brownie was over wintered and fertile, is it possible it has spawned and not yet got its condition back?

__________________
Just My Tuppenceworth!!

I have never fished a big fish small water but I am sure one day I will give it a try.
I did drop in on Dever last bank holiday whilst out for a drive with my Mrs we sat in the car as it was peeing down and watched as a couple of fish were hooked and landed. These fish did not roll over into the net, both anglers took a bit of time to land these fish. Just before we left one angler was returning to his car with 2 fish a brown and a rainbow both around 6lb, I had a close look at these fish and in all honesty there were great looking fish.

I guess for most of us living in the south east generally stock fish are all that are available locally and if you want to fly fish for trout we have little choice
I do return to Scotland occasionally and get to fish for small wild browns and would love similar fishing here but it does not exist unless you are a lottery winner. Dever fish, Test fish, reservoir fish they are for the most all stockies it’s just a case of size.

Hello Lighthouse

Those fish are decidedly "manky".No defence really for such poor quality.These fisheries do have a place in our options with the quality being monitored a little better than your unfortunate examples.I have fished both fisheries although not this season and even then it is only an occasional visit to one or the other.I have been happy with the fish I caught but they are never on a par in the power stakes with the reservoir rainbows and browns I often fish for in Somerset.It goes without saying also I do not really expect it from fish reared in this way for these particular fisheries.Where are we going? well I have had a fabulous season so far in spite of the damn wind so it is not all doom and gloom.I would maybe have taken it up with the fishery or at least mentioned it.The brown is like a kelt and the pumpkin rainbow is a joke.Several of the fish have easily noticeable defects.I think maybe more of a case of "where are they going" as you will probably not return in any hurry.
Why did you go there in the first place ? To stalk and catch a big fish I guess.You would not go to such a fishery for any other reason really unless I am missing something.No I agree it is not a this versus that.End of the day it is a choice made by the flyfisher as to where,why and how.I sometimes visit a local smallwater fishery which is part of a fish farm complex and there are some very big double figure fish there and the fish I have caught and seen both browns and rainbows have been in splendid condition but they have no real tow in them.Yes maybe a run or two but easily subdued compared to the line hissing through the rings behind a jet propelled Zummerzet reservoir fish.

JP

This just isn't true Jeffd. I gave the same opinion when I started fishing whilst living south of London, but eventually realised through some trawling on the internet for river fishing and asking for pointers on forums, that there is in fact an abundance of cheap and sometimes free good fishing in the south east.

In regards to the original post, I've fished exclusively for wild and migratory fish for years now, but last winter through sheer boredom went to a stockie place in Carms. I had forgot that although not the 'real deal' these places do scratch the itch when you can't go fishing for wild fish.
That said (and I have fished some of the big rainbow waters), I share the opinion that this 'stalking waters' experience is as far from what I term real angling as I care to experience.

It's almost like a golf club for fishermen who can't be @rsed to put in the blanking and small fish, to once in a while hit on a really big fish...

Bri

__________________
www.goldengrovecottages.com

Its an interesting observation , whilst agreeing that those particular fish look pretty manky , places such as that do serve a particular need. As one of the other posters has already written there are parts of the country where for most average punters commercial still waters are the only option as river fishing is beyond many peoples means.

In the past I have enjoyed the thrill of big fish in such a place, I use to fish rockbourne over 20 years ago and had some real clunkers out of there which at the time I enjoyed immensley and on reflection I have never caught larger trout since. But and surely heres the point that type of fishery really doesnt push the buttons for me anymore no matter how big the fish are , what matters is the quality, surroundings and experience and yes if they are wildies you are catching even better. I am lucky as I live in a part of the country where decent river fishing is still within many peoples means. I love catching wild fish but I have no problem with stocked fish but prefer to see fish that are well conditioned and not completely out of place within there enviroment. However I think that there are many anglers out there who would love to catch those pot bellied pigs many of those anglers will move on and look for something extra, perhaps to the rivers but some will be happy to keep catching them..Its each to their own...

Andy

As FlyBri has pointed out for anyone prepared to make the effort good fly fishing can be found anywhere at a reasonable price. True there may be places where you find little or no trout fishing but you can have just as much fun fly fishing for coarse fish. Many of these coarse fish (pike and chub for example) will be a fair bit bigger than most wild brown trout caught in this country. So there is no need for anyone on a budget to be stuck with nothing but 4oz trout.
The fact that these totally artificial waters can provide fishing that is more challenging or difficult than wild fishing is niether here or there - it is still totally artificial and in so many ways unsustainable.

Andy