Hi all

newbie here with a question: a club or syndicate might have the fishing rights on a stretch of river, but if there's kids swimming or dogs wading in or whatever is there anything that can be done? To whom does the river itself belong? Might such "ownership" be with the club who have bought or leased the rights? As a club member I suppose I co-rent a certain aspect but what about the water, riverbed, etc?

Thanks

Ollie

Ollie,

Whoever owns the land on both sides of the river owns the river bed. If there are two owners, one each side of the river each owns the river bed to the midpoint. Your club may have leased the fishing rights, or may even own the fishing rights, which gives you access to the land. It can be a real minefield.
You will always have problems with people (and dogs) paddling in the river, but it's amazing how accustomed the fish become to this sort of disturbance. Once teatime arrives though the visitors vanish and the river is yours once more, and that's the best time of the day anyway.

Well in Scotland, the 2003 act gave us the Scottish Outdoor Access Code which pretty much allows anyone to go anywhere (other than standing crops and your garden) and they have a right of access for recreation, however the landowners (or his representatives) use comes first and visitors should respect the land owners use and avoid interfering with that use.

In England & Wales, pretty much is the same on 'unenclosed land' subject to the Countryside & Right of Way Acts and its own code. On other land, the public should be on public rights of way and other than where they cross a river at a ford, they shouldn't be off of the footpath in the river. You are within your rights to ask them to leave but it's very difficult to enforce, short of strong arming them off the land (need to be careful not to assault them), as it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter, so plod normally aren't interested.

Best way is to talk to them and explain to them what they are doing wrong (i.e. scaring the fish, preventing you from fishing) and most people are receptive and will move on.

If they are aggressive, call the police who can't arrest them for trespass but can for 'disturbing the peace' or similar, let me know your local forces response time.

Least best way is to start shouting or ranting at them as they tend to become aggressive and emotional and very soon, plod ends up on your door step instead.

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Just My Tuppenceworth!!

Well in Scotland, the 2003 act gave us the Scottish Outdoor Access Code which pretty much allows anyone to go anywhere (other than standing crops and your garden) and they have a right of access for recreation, however the landowners (or his representatives) use comes first and visitors should respect the land owners use and avoid interfering with that use.

Not being argumentitive here but

The right to roam act allows movement ,but not just anywhere.For example if it interferes with the running of a business,then they are not within the act and can be asked to leave,if they refuse,police can be called to extract them where required.
With their being no law of trespass in Scotland aswell,anyone can enter your garden and unless damage is caused to the garden ,only common sense is your friend.

This is what the right to roam act causes is total lack of understanding with the public and many feel they can and have the right to go anywhere,they do not read it fully to understand there ARE some limits and it is not an open invite.

Please feel free to correct me with information anyone.

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Kevin

Sorry Kev,
but gardens have been excluded!

Scottish Government: Web page currently unavailable.

is all explained on this site.
Link is available, ignore warning.
b.t.w revo, is this not a repeat?
regards
bert

You are not allowed within the curtilage of a residence. The bigger the house the farther away you have to be, the famous one was the owner of the Stagecoach bus company who successfully had the area around her house extended for privacy reasons.

Stagecoach boss Gloag in landmark challenge to ramblers' access rights - Scotsman.com News

There is a law of trespass in Scotland but relates to encampment on land, premisses and roadside and the lighting of fires. The Land reform act covers this by saying that you are only supposed to camp for no more than two nights in any one place.

Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865

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Don't worry, be happy.
Sandy
Carried it in full, then carry it out empty.

No, at least not by me. Maybe others have asked the same or similar?

"Oi'm noo 'ee-ur" ("I'm new here" in my best Cotswold accent)

Sorry m8.
Answered simillar questions a few nights back re acces to rivers.
regards
bert

Thankyou both for correction,just goes to show how confusing it is for everyone.(sorry Bert, gardens are Included in the act)

As far as water and fishings the act 2003,is pretty clear and ownership and permission is clearly required by anyone intending to use it.It is not OUR right just to pitch up and fish.

Amended by the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003

Here is the uptodate info on right to roam.In brief(there is alot more)

The Scottish Outdoor Access Code provides detailed guidance on the responsibilities of those exercising access rights and of those managing land and water and sets out a number of exceptions where the land access right doesn’t apply:


Houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and associated land;
Land in which crops are growing;
Land next to a school and used by the school;
Sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use;
Land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights would interfere with such use;
Golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don’t interfere with any games of golf);
Places like airfields, railways, telecommunication sites, military bases and installations, working quarries and construction sites; and
Visitor attractions or other places which charge for entry.


This part applies for those with stillwaters and have problems with those quoting their right to roam about a fishery and picnic,walk their dog etc.

berts link seems quite clear with reference to rights on the water.The piece in bold below is of most interest for those who consider fishing to be free in Scotland.

Please see section 11 of the 2003 Act which states "Any person who without legal right, or without permission from a person having such right, fishes in a proper stank or loch shall be guilty of an offence, and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale."

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Kevin

As I pointed out in the other thread. This is the rest of that section.

(2)
For the purposes of this section—



“proper stank or loch” means a stank or loch the fishing rights in which are owned by one person; and

“stank” means a reservoir or pond with neither inlet nor outlet sufficient to allow access or egress by fish.

__________________
Don't worry, be happy.
Sandy
Carried it in full, then carry it out empty.