Fly Fishing Forums
Go Back   Fly Fishing Forums > General Fly Fishing Forums > General Fly Fishing Discussion
Forums Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 06:24 PM
bill1's Avatar
Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sale, Mcr.
Posts: 5,619
bill1 is a jewel in the roughbill1 is a jewel in the rough
Question Tail-nips.

Got to thinking about tail-nips.

On the reservoir today, I had been blanking all morning. Very few fish were coming to the net but people were getting a few pulls without making contact.
After getting fed up with moving around the reservoir without improving things, I settled into a corner that usually fishes well and got down to fishing lures, mostly Cats and Zonkers.

Between 1pm and 2pm I started to get small pulls without making contact. They gradually firmed up and I started making contact but the fish were shedding the hook fairly easily.
After 2pm the pulls became firmer and I started to land fish, although still loosing some but not so quickly.
After 4pm the takes became less firm and I was getting more nips again. By dusk things had more or less dried up.

So what is it about tail-nips?

To say that the fish are playful strikes me as anthropomorphic and after the recent freeze, highly unlikely.

To say that they are curious, seems equally unlikely. They must have seen plenty of lures before and why would they be curious at 1pm and then accept them as prey items at 2pm and then go back to being curious at 4pm?
The same seems true of them being suspicious. Why suspicious at 1pm but not at 2pm, unless they had got used to them in an hour and started to accept them as food. But if suspicious, why approach them in the first place and take a nip? A trout, suspicious of a dry fly, leaves it severely alone (usually)

Are they taking and ejecting quickly? Once again, why eject at 1pm and not at 2pm

Perhaps a change in light or water temperature encouraged feeding at 2pm, which takes us back to what were they doing with the lures at 1pm?


Any thoughts, people?
__________________
"Take not out your 'ounds on a werry windy day" Surtees.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 06:52 PM
PitsfordPirate's Avatar
Trade Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northants and Fife
Posts: 5,369
PitsfordPirate will become famous soon enough
Default

If you get these nips, then stop retrieving for a few moments and see if it hammers the flee, if not the give the flee a sharp pull then twiddle again to induce a take.

Just vary your retrieve to entice the fish into taking, stop, start, slow, fast, keep changing.

If they think its gonna get away from them, they sometimes just hammer it. If they think they have stunned it with their nips and is therefore static, they sometimes just hammer it.

Just keep in touch and they will come, wallop!

The Pirate.
__________________
Sonik Sports Team Pitsford Pirates - No pressure, just pleasure! Pip pip!

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/trade-cla...e-bonanza.html

http://www.soniksports.com/

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/fly-lines...unkistbob.html

Last edited by PitsfordPirate; 23-01-2011 at 06:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 06:54 PM
boorod's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: top of quinag
Posts: 1,077
boorod is on a distinguished road
Default

CANT REALY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ON THAT, BUT WHEN I USED TO FISH STOCKED WATERS THERE WAS ON IN PARTICULAR THA YOU WOULD CATCH FISH UP TO ABOUT 11.30AM THEN EVERYTHING WENT DEAD BY AROUND 3PM YOU WOULD START GETTING TAKES AGAIN, I ALLWAYS PUT IT DOWN TO WHEN THE FISH WERE FED PRIOR TO BEING STOCKED, JUST A THOUGHT THOU. B
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 06:57 PM
PitsfordPirate's Avatar
Trade Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northants and Fife
Posts: 5,369
PitsfordPirate will become famous soon enough
Default

Turn your caps off mate

The Pirate.
__________________
Sonik Sports Team Pitsford Pirates - No pressure, just pleasure! Pip pip!

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/trade-cla...e-bonanza.html

http://www.soniksports.com/

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/fly-lines...unkistbob.html
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 06:59 PM
garyj's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dunfermline, Fife
Posts: 2,009
Blog Entries: 15
garyj is on a distinguished road
Default

I went through the same scenario a while back; I ended up fishing a cruncher on a dropper with a damsel on the point, very slow erratic retrieve, nips at the lure but solid takes on the cruncher.
Why it happens I do not know, but like all situations improvisation is the best cure
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 07:36 PM
bill1's Avatar
Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sale, Mcr.
Posts: 5,619
bill1 is a jewel in the roughbill1 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PitsfordPirate View Post
If you get these nips, then stop retrieving for a few moments and see if it hammers the flee, if not the give the flee a sharp pull then twiddle again to induce a take.

Just vary your retrieve to entice the fish into taking, stop, start, slow, fast, keep changing.

If they think its gonna get away from them, they sometimes just hammer it. If they think they have stunned it with their nips and is therefore static, they sometimes just hammer it.

Just keep in touch and they will come, wallop!

The Pirate.
I'll certainly give it a try. Up to now I've sped up the retrieve after a nip. (as it wasn't working, I should have thought to try a full stop
Today, if it wasn't fished dead slow and mid-water, they weren't interested. Once I'd worked that out, I didn't really think about varying the retrieve.
I had several takes on the hang, but none if I fished parallel to the shore, so I reckoned that they were following it in.
The whole thing got me curious. If they were following it in, why waste the energy when they could have grabbed it further out?

So, you reckon the nip is to stun it or slow it down?
__________________
"Take not out your 'ounds on a werry windy day" Surtees.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 07:49 PM
lhomme's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: on your distinguished road?
Posts: 1,385
lhomme is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Bill,

in reservoirs caught and returned or hooked and lost fish wise up very quickly. Sometimes fish will even learn from looking at others getting hooked because there are so many! They start nibbling because they suspect a hook is hidden in whatever they follow. PP is right in saying it can help to stop the retrieve because any real insect or small fish getting this treatment will usually stop or slow down temporarily or indefinitely. That is what these trout are looking at. Sometimes it can help to speed up the retrieve as well giving the impression a prey is trying to escape.
But in general when fish start doing this they are either stressed or not in the mood for feeding. Make some flies with a (small) hook at the tail of the imitation and avoid long tailed streamers or lures in that situation.
If you think trout can't be that clever, you should see free swimming fish trying to break the line to help another hooked "friend".

Johan
__________________
Johan Janssens
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 08:13 PM
PitsfordPirate's Avatar
Trade Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northants and Fife
Posts: 5,369
PitsfordPirate will become famous soon enough
Default

Yeh, its still pretty cool at the moment and the stockies are either still lethargic and coming back on the feed, or used to simply wallowing around picking up pellets, so slow or static might be best, they aint in the mood to be racing around chasing fast flees.

The Pirate.
__________________
Sonik Sports Team Pitsford Pirates - No pressure, just pleasure! Pip pip!

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/trade-cla...e-bonanza.html

http://www.soniksports.com/

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/fly-lines...unkistbob.html
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 08:20 PM
bill1's Avatar
Member

 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sale, Mcr.
Posts: 5,619
bill1 is a jewel in the roughbill1 is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhomme View Post
Hi Bill,


But in general when fish start doing this they are either stressed or not in the mood for feeding. Make some flies with a (small) hook at the tail of the imitation and avoid long tailed streamers or lures in that situation.
If you think trout can't be that clever, you should see free swimming fish trying to break the line to help another hooked "friend".

Johan
More good advice Many thanks.

However, your last sentence opens a whole can of worms
I fully agree that stress can induce aberrant behaviour in an organism. However, whilst I can accept that fish can "learn" in the narrowest sense of the word, I find it difficult to accept that fish can reason which is what would be required to try to break a line to help a friend.
Please don't misunderstand me, I don't doubt that you have observed what you state, but I would (in the interests of a good argument ) query the interpretation.
__________________
"Take not out your 'ounds on a werry windy day" Surtees.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 23-01-2011, 08:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Argyll
Posts: 235
Blog Entries: 1
ghilliejohn is on a distinguished road
Default Sting In The Tail

Hi,
At times most of our trout and salmon too 'come short' nipping the fly without taking.
With sea trout a flying treble tied in at the tail end often results in hook ups.
With salmon and trout dropping a size or two often works.
The theory of stunning their prey is logical based on the fact that trout often 'splash' at a dry or sub surface fly in order to 'drown it and take it wet'...
Temperature and light conditions are important especially in the colder months these two factors induce feeding responses in wild fish..
Many times I have encountered the same situation whilst salmon fishing...
Early morning look over the bridge ..3 salmon lying in 12 foot of water ..its 8.30 a.m fishing not due to begin until 9.00a.m but I would not take my client to disturb those fish until 10.00a.m when the sun was rising high and the temperature had risen a couple of degrees...thats all it takes ...success !
by 2.30-3.00pm temperatures dropping and so to fish's activity ..
Was this the lightest and 'warmest' period of the day when you had some interest at your fly ?

Kindest regards
JOHN
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Squirrel tail versus calf tail stevekale Fly Tying Forum 2 12-06-2010 03:15 PM
The 'Rat Tail' Brennan Tackle Talk 3 20-07-2009 06:52 AM
Fox tail navybloke Fly Tying Forum 1 31-08-2007 01:29 AM
The tail end of the float.... corsair166b General Fly Fishing Discussion 3 04-06-2006 03:10 AM






All times are GMT. The time now is 07:03 PM.


Loading...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006-2011 Fish&Fly Ltd