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Old 03-12-2010, 03:31 PM
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Hi
i do not know if you have discussed this from the Yorkshire Post 26th Nov.
A rod for their own backs - Yorkshire Post

Published Date: 26 November 2010
Fishing ponds are bad for fishermen and for the sport, claim scientists. Mark Holdstock reports.


Angling is Britain's most popular participation sport and it's still growing – 1.5m rod licences were sold across England and Wales last year, a 12 per cent increase in a year and a massive rise of half a million since 2000.

That looks a healthy picture with congratulations all round due to those who have succeeded in getting more people to enjoy outdoor exercise.

But now scientists have sounded a warning. Their research has focused on commercial angling lakes which, on the plus side, offer greater access to fishing, particularly for those with mobility problems. But they say younger people will learn little from the experience.

Researchers at the Rural Economy and Land Use Programme, at Newcastle University, teamed up with colleagues from Durham and Hull Universities to carry out studies which entailed interviewing anglers on the Swale, Esk and Ure, as well as enthusiasts enjoying their sport at the many fishing lakes which have expanded greatly over the past 30 years.

Dr Liz Oughton, who is leading the research, says, "The commercial lakes have huge advantages for people who find it difficult to access rivers. They can go, buy a day ticket and fish. But they're almost like shopping trips. It doesn't require a huge commitment in learning skills, because there are so many fish in the water."

She agrees that these lakes offer great value for money and the added attraction is that they are often set in attractive countryside where people from towns get a breath of fresh air. But they are artificial environments.

"The ponds are highly managed, they're very highly stocked with fish, they contain a number of species which really are non-native.

"I think it would be very sad if they developed at the expense of the social aspects of angling and angling clubs, and the way in which people came together to fish, to learn skills, to manage rivers.

"It would be a pity to lose that through a process of a commodification of angling."

Dr Sally Eden, reader in Geography at Hull University, interviewed river anglers. "Some of them are not very keen on ponds that are very commercial," she says. "They tend to like older, still waters, perhaps old quarries that have been in-filled. I think there is a lot of worry in the river angling community about the effect of ponds and the commercialisation of the recreation.

"I liken it a bit to supermarkets. People worry about supermarkets killing off small shops because supermarkets are always available and they've got huge amounts of stocks;, you can drive your car right up to them. It's a similar argument made about ponds. I think they're concerned particularly about young people who are going to be mainly bothered about going to ponds where they can catch big fish easily.

"Those youngsters aren't going to get to know rivers in the same way. They're not going to have the patience or the skills to interact with rivers, and more and more fishing will be devoted towards ponds."

This is rejected by Richard Whiting, the owner of the Stonebridge Fishing Lakes, near Northallerton. He has set up a programme called the Stonebridge Angling Academy and Junior Club, with the intention of teaching youngsters the broader range of skills.

"Ninety-nine per cent of the juniors whos come through our fishery, fish the rivers as well. A lot of them come to us, they learn that, yes, the fishing is safe and, yes, they can catch fish. Once they've got the basic skills, they go off to the rivers."

He also rejects suggestions that still waters make fishing too easy.

"You've still got to learn how to set all your tackle up, where fish are, how to fish them, and what depths to fish them. There's still loads of skill involved.

"No matter how many fish are in the water, you've still got to catch them."

Mark Lloyd, chief executive of the Angling Trust, agrees that the lakes are good for encouraging participation, but is also critical of them.

"You don't have the range of species; it's not as complex and there isn't the variety of species that you get in a river.

"For those of us who learned on rivers, we feel that was a great education. In the dynamic environment of a river, there's a whole other dimension. Certainly when I learnt to fish, I spent hours paddling around lifting up stones finding stone loaches and bullheads and really understanding what was going on. I think that the commercialisation of angling has meant that it's become a sort of retail experience."

There are, he says, practical reasons for encouraging more anglers onto the river bank. They provide extra pairs of eyes which can spot problems with the aquatic environment and are an early-warning system.

Other experts say the growing popularity of fishing lakes is because of the poor state of our rivers.

Charles Jardine, director of the Countryside Alliance Foundation's Fishing For Schools project, says: "Our rivers have been in a dire situation for the last 50 or 60 years – not through anglers' but society's making.

"The amount of water abstraction has lowered flows and there's all manner of agricultural run-off that affects them. You've first got to look at the problem which created the commercial fisheries in the first place – and that's the decline and lack of stock in these waters.

"It's madness to assume that just because of commercial interests anglers are not fishing on the rivers. They're not doing so because there are better options."

Richard Whiting adds that the kind of fishing lake that he runs provides a good stepping stone for the young, or the inexperienced to learn.

"It's like if you were a rally driver, you'd go on a normal course of driving and then, when you were competent round the track, you'd want to go out and do it in the woods, as a challenge."

CW 27/11/10
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:58 PM
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This is a tricky one, and one I'm loathe to respond too it, but here goes!

Growth - it seems - is through the coarse, commercial fishery, especially carp fishing market and certainly not through fly fishing.

I think it is this, small pond, coarse fishing mentality that is the "bad for fishing thing" that's mentioned.

The boom in fly fishing started properly with more and more small waters cropping up in the 80's and really hit the heady heights in the 90's!

In my opinion, for what it's worth, anglers that started off fishing small still waters for trout have used it as a starting block, a stepping stone to other types of fly fishing.

In the past, it was clear that there were those that only wanted to fish small waters for stocked rainbows, in some cases it's still the same. Now, I think that most anglers try many other forms of fly fishing, be it river, reservoir, hill loch, saltwater or for other species; it's a natural progression, if they want to grow and learn as anglers?

We live in a time of quick fixes, this is why the small commercial coarse / carp fisheries are so popular, they are cheap, easily accessed and rammed full of fish.
People often say that there's no such thing as a guarantee but catching from many of these waters more or less is, that's why youngsters and newcomers keep coming back!
We need new blood in fly fishing, be it youngsters or anglers from other disciplines, all those clubs and fisheries that help bring them in are to be applauded.

When there used to be a close season for coarse fishing, fly fishing never had it so good! Since they binned it, we've never had it so bad!

How many venues have switched to coarse fishing in the last ten years I wonder? More than a few I'd wager!

If we still had these small water venues, then perhaps we'd have the anglers to fish them?
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:19 PM
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The original article completely missed the point I think, espeically the AT I'm afraid to say, which just came over all snobby and elitist. They're proving grounds, places to try out the sport, and IF you fancy something more technical, then go onto a river. Charles was the only person who was realistic in the article, small fisheries came around because of demand, either because the river was too polluted, or to overgrown/developed, or too bloody expensive. Stillwaters fill a niche and bring lots of people into the sport, whereas snobby elitist attitudes do the exact opposite, so hooray for small stillwaters, and *******s to the tweedy snobs!
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:45 PM
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Darren, it's an awful lot of Tweedy types that fish small waters, let's not get into the habit of name calling, it's bad for the sport mate.
There are too many people out there that are ready to let off steam without even thinking, we're all fly fisherman at the end of the day.
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Old 03-12-2010, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peepingcaddis View Post
Darren, it's an awful lot of Tweedy types that fish small waters, let's not get into the habit of name calling, it's bad for the sport mate.
There are too many people out there that are ready to let off steam without even thinking, we're all fly fisherman at the end of the day.


Steve, indeed we are but there are those who allegedly think they are better than us mere mortals ,whether it be through there attire and tongue(plum in gob) or there equipment
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:02 PM
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It's funny, it's the ones that think they are better that end up getting egg on their face.
Tackle and equipment doesn't make you a better angler though does it!
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:24 PM
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indeed Steve ..indeed
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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It really didn't say that at all did it?


I saw it more as comparing, and we are talking coarse angling here, artificial commercial stocked 'holes in the ground' with more naturalized stillwaters such as old quarries.

There was no mention of class distinction or tweed clothing, FFS we are talking coarse fishing here , nor was superior tackle mentioned.

I thought Dr Liz Oughton made some good points; fair well balanced article (insert egg on face smiley).


Quote:
Dr Liz Oughton, who is leading the research, says, “The commercial lakes have huge advantages for people who find it difficult to access rivers. They can go, buy a day ticket and fish. But they’re almost like shopping trips. It doesn’t require a huge commitment in learning skills, because there are so many fish in the water.”
She agrees that these lakes offer great value for money and the added attraction is that they are often set in attractive countryside where people from towns get a breath of fresh air. But they are artificial environments.
“The ponds are highly managed, they’re very highly stocked with fish, they contain a number of species which really are non-native.


“I think it would be very sad if they developed at the expense of the social aspects of angling and angling clubs, and the way in which people came together to fish, to learn skills, to manage rivers.
“It would be a pity to lose that through a process of a commodification of angling.”
and

Quote:
“Some of them are not very keen on ponds that are very commercial. They tend to like older, still waters, perhaps old quarries that have been in-filled. I think there is a lot of worry in the river angling community about the effect of ponds and the commercialisation of the recreation...

“Those youngsters aren’t going to get to know rivers in the same way. They’re not going to have the patience or the skills to interact with rivers, and more and more fishing will be devoted towards ponds.”
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