fly with copyright

[humungus]

i went to a fishery tonight was using a fly and was told it was copyrighted i nearly laughed my head aff i dont dispute someone invented this fly but to be told i must get them from him when ive tied for 28yrs and used my own what a cheak has anyone heard ofd this what i said was the minute i use something diffrent in the tail tinsel its my desighn not his

[sewinbasher]

I believe that Sid Knight got a copywrite on the Dog Nobbler and although you can buy identical flies or make them for yourself you can't call them a Dog Nobbler which is why those that do not come from Mr Knight are called things like leadheads.

[alimar]

And did you stop using it bud,, or did you pay the royalties

Patent royalty rates are influenced by the importance of the patent and its value to the products

come on ,, whats the name,, dinny wanna be using it ,, if ive no bought it from the correct source


awwww,, mines called cat cobblers

[fishfinger]

Ave heard of pirate DVD's & CD's but pirate flees whit next

[seanie]

You are right Davy, A different tail, Tread, Wing etc anything at all makes it a different fly. Who does this guy think he is ? I'd say he was only taking the ****

[shpeil]

I'm wondering if it's possible to copyright a fly. I can see how you could copyright the name, but suspect you couldn't copyright the fly. I could be wrong, but my thinking is that the fly, being an object, would require patent protection.

Neil

[Chris Reeves]

It is a common misconception that in English law you can copyright a fishing fly. You can, as already stated copyright a name as Sid Knight did, you can also get a patent for a new material or method of tying a fly, that would then allow you to collect royalties from anyone selling flies tied using that method or material.

You cannot copyright or patent a design when the vast majority of the materials and methods have been in use for hundreds of years

Designer clothing is a classic example. The name label is what is protected by copyright and the particular dress, shoe or handbag is only protected if it is completely original. Most designers patent a pattern and incorporate it into the handbag etc to protect the design. Burberry, Louis Vuiton Gucci are all good examples.

The idea for copyrighting flies seems to come from the United States where every man and his dog has their own fly and every shop has a tier or two with several protected patterns, hence the names of the flies "Quiggley's Cripple", "Royal Wulff" etc etc incorporating the originators name.
Under the complex copyright laws of both individual States and the national regulations you cannot sell those flies without the express consent of the originator. This is also why Orvis Umpqua etc are very careful to not sell patterns that someone else claims as their own. There is also a well developed litigation culture where someone would be willing to sue on your behalf.


In the UK no one has succesfully patented a fly, Sid Knight tried and all that happened was people changed the names of the fly from Dog Nobbler to Lead Head, Frog Nobbler, Puppy etc etc. I don't think Sid ever collected anything more than token royalties.

My take is that you should give a designer credit for something new and innovative, eg David Train - Cat's Whisker John Goddard G and H sedge, Tom Ivens Jersey Herd, but also remember that there are many thousand fly tiers , a lot of whom develop and adapt flies from their own or other's patterns. Parrallel evolution will and does occur so to claim a fly is an original when it is tied using readily available materials on a standard hook with standard techniques is a dangerours game.

I do not "name" my flies, or if I do I give them a generic name. . Not through false modesty but because this helps people to re order the flies
I don't want to get into any arguements over who invented the wheel.
If my flies are the same as your secret pattern then we should be mutually congratualtory , great minds having thought alike rather than biockering over something that no one really cares about.

We have the best (written in English) fly fishing magazines in the world, we publish lots of new flies and new ideas monthly. We encourage development and innovation through comptitions such as the one Fulling Mill runs in Trout fisherman. We also have a number of historians who could probably trace the ancestory of most flies back a few years too.

So next time you see this chap tell him to publish his flies in the magazines and we'll all applaud his skill and intiative. We will also go away and copy and adapt his fly.

Regards

[greenock]

So whats the fly then?

[Alwyn]

It's madness! Didn't Jim Teeny register a patent / trademark for his Tenny Nymph? John Roberts alludes to this in his excellent "River Trout Flies" and remarks that it's a practice that he deplores. Quite right too - virtually every pattern is a derivative of another and the concept of sharing ideas about fly design is a fundamental value of the sport in my view.

[3lbgrayling]

Another one was the Sunray shadow,It seemed for years it had to be called The 'Brooks' Sunray Shadow,I believe he was very vigilant in making sure it had the proper name.But nobody seems to bother with the 'Brooks' bit nowdays

Jim