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Old 03-08-2010, 02:00 PM
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Default Soldier Palmer - is it a dry or wet fly?

I'm confused as this fly is always described as being a wet fly, however - it uses cock hackles and is used to "create a disturbance on the surface" - often as a top dropper to two other submerged flies. I was going to tie it, but due to its uses, instead of using a wet fly hook, I was going to use a light-weight up-eye. Is this wise?
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:07 PM
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Its a wet fly for top dropper as u say but uses chinese cock which is a bit softer hackle and a wet fly hook to get the fly where it wants thats not to say a trout wont take it as a dry fly as a trip to allandale tarn many years ago i cast out a big black lure with loads of flash it hit the water and b4 it had a chance to sink a trout took it lol.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:11 PM
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Soldier is a hackled wet fly, sometime it has a wing. Do you want the fly to sink or stay high in the water? Up to you and how you fish it.
Midlander has a nice document in the Classics to date folder.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darwin View Post
Soldier is a hackled wet fly, sometime it has a wing. Do you want the fly to sink or stay high in the water? Up to you and how you fish it.
Midlander has a nice document in the Classics to date folder.
Ok, so I wonder why my book states it's great for creating disturbance in the surface! Bit weird

Generally I would want to fish it the most effective way possible - so it would mean the traditional 3 fly setup. I just don't understand why you would want to have a wet fly specifically to create a disturbance on the surface.

Surely, a fly like a muddler dry or a humpy would be better for that purpose? I mean, they would be less likely to sink - especially with the added weight of the two subsurface flies.

Sorry, just finding my way in the fishing world - although I've been at it for a while - I've never really *thought* about what I was doing!
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:02 PM
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I think you're confusing 'in' with 'on'. The bob fly should form a bulge in the surface tension, on the hang, so as to imitate an insect trying to break free, as I understand it.

That's not to say it wouldn't work ginked up and skittered through a wave.

I hope Midlander doesnt mind but,

" Palmers, in their various guises are the standard top dropper pattern. They are traditionally used to create a disturbance in the waters surface which, because of trout's habit of looking upward for food, can cause it to rise in the water column to take a look at the disturbance and see if it's edible. Palmers generally need a bit of wind to become useful in this role as the hackles create a more noticeable commotion in the surface layers when there is a good ripple or wave on the water.

A general rule would be to use larger flies in a larger wave, therfore continuing to create a noticeable groove or bulge in the surface tension. However, as you'll find there's no room for general rules in wet fly fishing. Some days the fish won't look at a big fly in a big wave while they'll happily take a size 14 in an 18 mph wind and two foot waves. Other days you might have to go up to a size 8 to get their interest.

Most of the time it's best to match the size and colour of the fly to the food item you're attempting to copy. So, for instance, a size 12 Soldier Palmer when buzzers are hatching. The SP can be effective when fish are taking buzzers just as they turn that red/orange colour at the moment they first pump blood into their wings.

A size 10 Fiery Brown Palmer can be handy in a fall of soldier beetles. The Claret Palmer can be effective in a hatch of black buzzers as can a Kate Mclaren. All the Palmers can be used as imitations of terrestrials. These are the days when the opportunistic nature of trout comes to the fore and they'll snap up anything that passes over them.

Palmers can be skittered over the surface, perhaps the true meaning of the 'bob' fly, but they are most used as something that rises to the surface and just breaks through the the film causing a bulge like that of a hatching insect. Fish feeding in the upper layers often find it hard to resist if presented in this way. They can also be employed as a lure by covering a moving fish and pulling past its line of travel. The colour, disturbance and movement in close proximity to the fish can cause it to chase and engulf a possible food item.

Never underestimate the similarity between a trout and a kitten with a ball of string. At times, both will chase a moving object and ignore it once it stops."

Last edited by brownsville; 03-08-2010 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:49 PM
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I think Brownsville's has covered it all.
Don't bother with the up eye dry fly hooks, they belong to history!


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Old 03-08-2010, 03:53 PM
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Not me Andy, that was part of what Midlander sent me along with some flies. I believe there's a book in that man. The Classics: Soldier Palmer.

Last edited by brownsville; 03-08-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:58 PM
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The 'Soldier Palmer' is a wet fly; or at least the 'modern' standard version is. It is palmered with cock hackle, and therefore more suited to the top dropper position when fishing in the classic 'Loch-stlye' fashion. Usually this will be on a on a flaoting line, though it has it uses further down the cast, and on deeper lines. The cock hackle has several attributes - It offers resistance, keeping the fly high in the water. It moves water, and it forms a 'halo', and gives translucency to the fly, as a result bouncing light in and around the fly.

Wet flies that employ predominantly hen hackle are more suited to work further down the cast, with the movement and life of of the soft hen providing the stimulus for the fish to take.

Them's the basics, but as always, there's no hard and fast rules... Yes, the 'Soldier', (as a bonus) in smaller sizes makes for a cracking dry fly... especially in the evening, even better if there's some red in the sky


Quote:
Originally Posted by darwin View Post
sometimes it has a wing...
No it doesn't. Not over here.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:05 PM
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Scratch, what's your favourite cock for palmering? (Don't say your own!)
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brownsville View Post
I believe there's a book in that man.
I believe you are right about that Mike....and what a book it would be.It would sit nicely alongside my "Viz Bumper Book of Sh*te Annual"......

No offence Eck...

Last edited by Wee Jimmy; 03-08-2010 at 04:18 PM.
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