Tying Spiders-what hook?

[christy27]

Hi folks, going to tie some Spiders but can not decide what hook. What do you use/recommend and what size?

Help please...

[duttontom]

Kamasan B160 sizes 14 & 16

[ibrown]

I have been using B400 size 14

[Clansman]

I use the Kamasan B160 in sizes 14 & 16, the same as duttontom

[emerger1981]

me aswell b160's size 14 - 16

[flyfishwithme]

Originally Posted by christy27

Hi folks, going to tie some Spiders but can not decide what hook. What do you use/recommend and what size?

Help please...

Now there is lots of views about this from standard size hooks to short shanked, from normal gape to wide gape.
If you go back to the original patterns and hooks you will find 3 key features (believe me I have looked at hundreds of flies tied in the early 1800's).
The first thing you notice is that they do not have an eye. Pretty obvious really, but maybe we should be looking at a straight eye hook. There are some interesting reasons for this when fishing North Country flies. For example, this is how they may behave if they are a down eyed hook:

You can see from this picture the way in which the flies sit against the dropper.
Now look at this which where the hook is a straight eye:

The point here that there is a difference. My experience (and I fish NC flies 85% of the time when I am out by myself) is that the straight eye is better and I get a more solid hook up. Not sure why but the evidence is good enough for me.
The second most noticeable thing about the old patterns is the thickness of the wire. They were very thin, probably because around that time hooks were obtained from needle makers. When I started fishing NC patterns I looked for this feature and in a bronze. I came up with the Partridge SLD as I also wanted barbless.
The third thing is the style of the hook. They were not short shanked and they had a limerick type of bend.
So you can see these characteristics should define the hook you select.
Now to the tying. There are also some standards about NC patterns where the body (slim as it is) forms part of the overall design. Too short or too long and you lose the effect.
Here are some things you might want to consider:

.
At the end of the day it is what works for you. But after catching thousands of fish on NC flies I do know what works best for me and it is the Kamasan B525 which is a course hook:

Yes it does have a barb but because it is so small it is easily bent down. It also satisfies many of the original characteristics - straight eye, thin, same bend and long enough to allow the proper tying.
So mate, you choose.

[maharg]

Good stuff from flyfishwithme.
I like to use drennan specimen hooks. They come in a bronze and a gold finish, barbed or barbless.

[emerger1981]

Originally Posted by flyfishwithme

Now there is lots of views about this from standard size hooks to short shanked, from normal gape to wide gape.
If you go back to the original patterns and hooks you will find 3 key features (believe me I have looked at hundreds of flies tied in the early 1800's).
The first thing you notice is that they do not have an eye. Pretty obvious really, but maybe we should be looking at a straight eye hook. There are some interesting reasons for this when fishing North Country flies. For example, this is how they may behave if they are a down eyed hook:

You can see from this picture the way in which the flies sit against the dropper.
Now look at this which where the hook is a straight eye:

The point here that there is a difference. My experience (and I fish NC flies 85% of the time when I am out by myself) is that the straight eye is better and I get a more solid hook up. Not sure why but the evidence is good enough for me.
The second most noticeable thing about the old patterns is the thickness of the wire. They were very thin, probably because around that time hooks were obtained from needle makers. When I started fishing NC patterns I looked for this feature and in a bronze. I came up with the Partridge SLD as I also wanted barbless.
The third thing is the style of the hook. They were not short shanked and they had a limerick type of bend.
So you can see these characteristics should define the hook you select.
Now to the tying. There are also some standards about NC patterns where the body (slim as it is) forms part of the overall design. Too short or too long and you lose the effect.
Here are some things you might want to consider:

.
At the end of the day it is what works for you. But after catching thousands of fish on NC flies I do know what works best for me and it is the Kamasan B525 which is a course hook:

Yes it does have a barb but because it is so small it is easily bent down. It also satisfies many of the original characteristics - straight eye, thin, same bend and long enough to allow the proper tying.
So mate, you choose.

someone had to do it! you'v started me off now!......

i need to revise my spiders
nice info flyfishwithme, have you tried the b160's for spiders?
cheers

Tight lines

[christy27]

Thanks to all of you for the replies, food for thought indeed. Thanks Philip for the very informative diagrams...got me thinking now.

I got the book North Country Flies-Mike Harding for my fathers day prezi, I put the order in a month ago . Soon, I am going to tie some of the patterns, last thing I need 20 or so down the line is to be using the wrong hook!

I accept several different types of hooks are perfectly suitable and personal preferences are right, but why? The more opinions I have to work with the better.

What interests me about Philips reply was he gave reasons why. I'd be well interested in some other reasons why...

[maharg]

No mate I have not tried that type of hook.
Will have a wee look at it though