Dubbing problem

[Trout Of Doubt]

I'm having issues adding dubbing to thread.
I've had a look at a couple of books and several tips on Youtube (a picture tells a thousand words) but they all make it look so damn easy and only seem to say "this is how to do it" and not "if xxx happens, then you're probably doing yyy".

1 - If I actually manage to spin the dubbing around the thread it just ends up like a thick rope coiled around a straight thin rope, not like the thread running through a tube of dubbing. (Does that make sense.)
2 - If I try to push the dubbing along the thread, up to the hook, it just bunches up.
3 - I either end up with a really thick amount of dubbing on the thread (and on the hook) or it all falls off. Either way it's at best bulky and straggly, not slim and neat.
4 - If I try to use a dubbing loop, either the dubbing doesn't get caught up when I spin the loop up, or it just ends up wrapped around one side of the loop.

All in all, it's a bit pants.
(FWIW I'm wondering about trying some of the Veniard sticky wax.)

[iamasmith]

I'm going to quote Gary Borger because I have so much respect for the guy and his work has helped me a lot.

With respect to a the 'small amount of dubbing' that you should use.

"First, most people interpret a 'small amount' to mean significantly more than is intended. Small means really small. In still hunting for deer a hunter is told to move as slowly as possible, and then told that's still twice too fast. When dubbing, take what you feel is a small amount of material; it will still be twice too much. Use only a few filaments of the dubbing material. If you need thicker dubbing, get it by applying several thin layers, one over the other. The final product will adhere to the thread much better and form a better body than one thick one."

Really made a hash of a LOT of seals fur dubs myself until I finally appreciated this bit.

And I use the Veniard Premium Tacky Wax. I like it a lot.

I have no experience of using dubbing loops since I feel happy dubbing all my smallish Trout flies direct.

[Trout Of Doubt]

I have been trying to use a very little (as I had read similar advice). When I say thick, I mean relatively thick, but maybe I am still using too much?

[fishon2]

SLF is the best dubbing iv found to use,
lick your finger and thumb before twisting it on,
twist it the same way your thread is twisted,
if dubbing hares mask add a little soft fur from near the skin mixed in,
if using a dubbing loop place dubbing in between thread spread top to bottom spin then cut off any lose fibers before rapping,
hope this helps

[iamasmith]

Originally Posted by idris

I have been trying to use a very little (as I had read similar advice). When I say thick, I mean relatively thick, but maybe I am still using too much?

Possibly, try experimenting and using half the amount. A good pattern that helped me a lot is Bibio because you have to transition from Black to Red and back to Black again. You know when you are getting it wrong because you have to hack a lot of it off before palmering it.

[horses50]

First of all which dubbing material are you useing.was it bought in a plastic container or in individual bags?I am asking these questions because i have found that the bags of dubbing are not packed as tightly as the container bought ones.I am a big fan of seals fur and i will sometimes use superfine.Now as for quantity to dub a fly,take a pinch of dubbing that you think will be enough to dub the body then HALF IT you will be suprised how far a little goes it is easier to add some more to complete the fly.Once you have your very small amount of dubbing you then pull the fibres apart with your fingers then twist it on to your thread. Hope this helps.

[christy27]

I have just started tying again after 20+ yrs off. I was having exactly the problems you describe last week. Then I remembered how I used to do it...dampen the two chunky bits on my palms below the thumbs put some dub on and rub/roll quite vigoursly up and down the thread until it looks thin enough, gently slide up to the hook and another rub if needed. Worked for me-just about .

[scott123456]

I use an electric coffee grinder to air/mix the dubbing fibres, then put my dubbing into its bag. Its also very handy for blending your own. What I do with seals fur when its just bought is to cut through the fibres twice with scissors to shorten them slightly, put them in the grinder for a minute or so and then the fibres should be aired enough to dub onto the thread much more easily and you dont need to wax the thread. Been tying for 20 years and I've used this technique for the last three years and it works really well.

P.s dont use the wifes coffee grinder or you wont be popular

[scotfly]

This should help you, enjoy.
UKFlyDressing - Dubbing Techniques

[steveparton]

Apart from the very obvious one of less is better - are you actually twisting always in the one direction ? Check !!

Then put a lot of pressure on between finger and thumb whilst you twist and aim to get the start in at one end of the dubbing and work down it with maybe three twists to finalise.

Seal and stoved mohair are the worst - so practise on them - the rest are easy !

And it is all about practise ! And what works for you - when I made Video/DVD's with Mick Huffer on the subject over 20 years ago we discovered that we dubbed very differently but both got the same end effects ( he does it left handed and with his thumb and index whereas I dub right handed between thumb and middle - both of us old time commercial tyers and teachers )

Best wishes

Steve P