My frist PTNs

[Trout Of Doubt]

The only flies I've tied in about 15, maybe even 20 years have been salmon flies, and many on 1"+ tubes.
Until last night when I tied what might as well be my first first trout flies : PTNs on 12 and 14 hooks.

I know they're not perfect, but your opinions please. (No really, I can take it!)

[ickypimp]

Absolutly nowt wrong with them, the 3rd pic is maybe whipped bit close to the eye but they will catch fish no problem.. good job...

[balnacnoc]

Looking good, heads might be a bit on the large side but other than that look ex. Out of interest are you still using the thread that you tie the salmon flies with, 6/0 ?, if so try using a finer thread like 8/0 or UTC 70.
AB

[mtn]

They will all indeed catch fish, a few pointers to help you out:

I would leave out the peacock herl, I've had way more success with the original dressing of just using the pheasant tail, plus its delicate and if a trout gets his teeth round it it'll more than likley snap.

Also you can afford to tie the tail in maybe 2-3mm further back on the hook shank, makes for a more proportioned fly, 2/3 body 1/3 thorax. You can use thi rule for your tails also, same legnth as the thorax, 1/3 hook shank legnth.

This is how I tie my small Pheasant Tails ( 14 or smaller):

Take thread to end of hook shank and tie tails in using 2 wraps of thread, apply a thin coat of super glue to all of the hook shank, take the pheasant tail all the way to the eye of the hook (leave room for the head), the use the tying thread to rib the body (aim for 6 turns of ribbing), take one turn 1/3 down the hook shank to where the back of the thorax will be, now fold the fibres back over for one pass of your thorax cover, tie down with 2 wraps, take the tying thread back to the eye and bring the fibres back again over the thorax, tie down snip off and whip finish, job done. I use 5 fibres for a size 14 4 for a 16, this seems to give a good impression of a tail without over doing it.

Hope this helps.

[steve collyer]

As others have said - those will catch just fine

I've tied this particular version loads of times & the iridescence of the peacock herl thorax does add something to it, in my opinion.

To avoid the delicate herls getting damaged too easily there are a couple of things you can do.
First, once you've tied the herls in at the end of the body, add a small dab of head cement on the top, bottom & sides of the tying silk between this area & just behind the eye. Wait a minute for it to go slightly tacky before winding the herl on.
Second, use 3 herls & make a rope by gently twisting them together. Make sure you twist them in the opposite direct to that which you wind them on to the shank.

Also to get the slight taper in the body, once you've tied-in the tail & copper wire rib, use open turns of silk to go 1/3 the way up the body, then make touching turns then come back down the same way.

Here's one I made earlier as they say.
I think it's pretty much typically proportioned for this type of nymph:

[Trout Of Doubt]

Originally Posted by ickypimp

... the 3rd pic is maybe whipped bit close to the eye ...

That was the first 14 I tied - didn't exactly go to plan

Originally Posted by allybally

... heads might be a bit on the large side ... are you still using the thread that you tie the salmon flies with, 6/0 ?, if so try using a finer thread like 8/0 or UTC 70.
AB

I wondered whether the heads were a little large.
I'm using finer thread for these, but it's not labled so I don't know what thickness it is. That said I've finished that reel and am going to use another, again unlabled. I'm sure I can google it, but any idea what the actual diameters are?

Originally Posted by mtn

... you can afford to tie the tail in maybe 2-3mm further back on the hook shank ... This is how I tie my small Pheasant Tails ( 14 or smaller) ...

Not sure I quite follow on the proportions - do you have any pics? I wasn't sure I'd got the proprtions right, though I was knew the 3rd one was wrong.
Why use superglue under the abdomen?
When you use just pheasant tail, do you tie in more than one bunch of fubres?
I think all the paterns I've seen say copper wire for ribbing, and the one I went with says to use it to build up bulk and weight under the thorax. Obviously this is quite different from your pattern - any comments?

[Trout Of Doubt]

Originally Posted by steve collyer

...Here's one I made earlier as they say...

LOL Ok, a little neater than mine.

[mtn]

Originally Posted by idris

Not sure I quite follow on the proportions - do you have any pics? I wasn't sure I'd got the proprtions right, though I was knew the 3rd one was wrong.
Why use superglue under the abdomen?
When you use just pheasant tail, do you tie in more than one bunch of fubres?
I think all the paterns I've seen say copper wire for ribbing, and the one I went with says to use it to build up bulk and weight under the thorax. Obviously this is quite different from your pattern - any comments?

Use the first line for the rear of the body, second for the tail legnth, just a rough guide.

Using superglue under the abdomen will help to stregthen the fly and make it more durable to a trouts sharp teeth. I tie in one bunch of 5 fibres for a size 14, this should be enough to tie the whole fly if you have some decent pheasant's tail. Copper wire is a good ribbing material, however in finer size's that you would be needing to use for smaller flys it is quite weak tbh and breaks easily, the thread lays flat so is less prone to being snapped by the trout's teeth, by all means copper wire is stronger in the larger sizes but in smaller sizes I find thread a better material to use. Rather than using copper wire to build up bulk use flat stickyback lead sheets (or even tungsten for more weight), use it under the thorax, a small amount of lead is heavier than the same amount of copper, so you can use less and still have an equally heavy/heavier fly.

[steve collyer]

Originally Posted by idris

...
When you use just pheasant tail, do you tie in more than one bunch of fubres?

***

I think all the paterns I've seen say copper wire for ribbing, and the one I went with says to use it to build up bulk and weight under the thorax. Obviously this is quite different from your pattern - any comments?

Anything size 12 or above will need more than one bunch of PT fibres. Even the longest simply aren't going to get through a trad-tied Sawyer PT with the doubled & re-doubled wing cases.
Size 14 is just about doable with 4 or 5 long PT fibres providing the tail is kept shortish.
Size 16 should be ok with 3 or 4 fibres.
Any smaller & 3 are plenty.

***

When finished ribbing, I use about 8-10 wraps of the copper wire at the thorax to add a little weight & help make the tapered profile, as in the fly above.
It also makes it a lot easier to tie-off because you can leave the wire as is then bring the silk forward, tie-off with 2 or 3 tight turns of silk, then wiggle the end of the wire in a circular motion until it breaks at the point it's tied in.

[ChrisDickey]

Those look spot on! I dont really fish PTN's but those certainly will catch you fish!