Why Don't We Use Spade Ends For Tiny Flies?

[Steve Walker]

I was just looking at this thread, about tying flies on size 24 hooks, and it occurred to me that in other forms of fishing I would very seldom use an eyed hook larger than a size 12 or 14, because in smaller sizes spade ends are more compact. Obviously, to tie a fly on a spade end you would first have to tie on a length of tippet, and to change a fly you would change both fly and tippet, but for flies tied on hooks smaller than a #20, it seems to me that this would make life easier on the bank, not harder. For delicate presentation of tiny flies, I'm sure you could do a better job on a spade end hook.

Is it done, if not, is there a reason not, or is it simply force of habit to use only eyed hooks?

[Chris Reeves]

The old blind eye hooks were tied to natural gut which was bound to the shank with the tying silk.
Gut is more pliable when wet and easier to tie in than nylon which has a hard surface and easily slips or pulls out from under wrapped silk.
This means an eyeless hook tied to nylon will usually have a thicker body as the nylon needs to be crimped, glued or doubled over to stop it slipping.
A spade end has a knot that jams against the spade, and therefore a fly tied on with a spade end knot would leave a larger head and thorax area.
Having said all that , I see no reason why some flies, carefully dressed in a manner appropriate to the aforementioned problems, could not be viable. If I wasn't so busy with orders I'd give it a go myself. Maybe next week.
Watch this space

Cheers

[Steve Walker]

Interesting, thanks Chris. A spade end whipping knot will add to the thickness of the head and possibly body, true - but then is not the first step in tying a great many flies to run a layer of whipping all the way down the shank? Perhaps a whipping knot going part of the way down the shank, with a layer of silk over it, would make an effective thorax?

[Chris Reeves]

Now you have got me thinking, My problem is getting a nylon of sufficent thiness so as not to "unbalance" the fly aesthically. However I do have some "new" mono that is superfine and might just do the job.....again , watch this space

cheers

[BRUCE1]

make sure you get the fluoro/mono to come off the front of the hook otherwise the spade will cut through it when playing fish

[marmalade]

Chris says it all.. although I do wonder how strong the join would be for a length of the finest tippet, if it were tied in the (fairly small) length of the shank.

One might find that a dab of varnish would be enough to hold it against fish to a pound or so.

Which brings me to another thought.. Rather than try and sting a size 24 on the leader bankside, you'd be better off doing it at home and storing the fly and leader ready to go.

Good thread.

[BRUCE1]

Originally Posted by Chris Reeves

Now you have got me thinking, My problem is getting a nylon of sufficent thiness so as not to "unbalance" the fly aesthically. However I do have some "new" mono that is superfine and might just do the job.....again , watch this space

cheers

chris , for an excellent very thin diam fluoro have a look at trabucco diamond its superb stuff believe me ive used it for years

TRABUCCO DIAMOND SPECTRUM LINE

[Steve Walker]

I don't think I would be overly concerned at the strength of the knot - I use spade end hooks when trotting for grayling, and have landed plenty of 2-3lb trout on size 18 and 20 hooks. Plenty of good chub, too, for that matter.

[BRUCE1]

Originally Posted by marmalade

Chris says it all.. although I do wonder how strong the join would be for a length of the finest tippet, if it were tied in the (fairly small) length of the shank.

One might find that a dab of varnish would be enough to hold it against fish to a pound or so.

Which brings me to another thought.. Rather than try and sting a size 24 on the leader bankside, you'd be better off doing it at home and storing the fly and leader ready to go.

Good thread.

M, ive had chub to 6lb on size 20's and below tied with this ..

Hook Tyers and how to use them

if you want constant regular sized knots this is the only thing to do it

[marmalade]

Originally Posted by Steve Walker

I don't think I would be overly concerned at the strength of the knot - I use spade end hooks when trotting for grayling, and have landed plenty of 2-3lb trout on size 18 and 20 hooks. Plenty of good chub, too, for that matter.

I was thinking no knot, just the mono whipped in as part of the body. If you went round the bend a little you might find it holds..

---------- Post added at 02:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

Do you know what? Rather than just thinking about it, why don't I just tie one up and find out? And then I'll hang a pot of jam off the end and see what happens.