Fly Fishing Forums
Go Back   Fly Fishing Forums > Fly Tying > Fly Tying Forum
Forums Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 05:57 PM
midlander's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Leicester
Posts: 1,941
midlander will become famous soon enough
Default The Classics: Soldier Palmer.

It was a bit of a task to work out some sort of history for the Soldier Palmer but here’s a lengthy preamble which will hopefully do it justice.

The Soldier Palmer that we know today is the evolved form of what is undoubtedly an ancient pattern. But the true origins of the soldier palmer, its inventor and place of invention are sadly lost in the mists of time. However, we can tease out pointers from a few sources that will hopefully guide us in the direction of a satisfactory theory. The palmer was a well known style of dressing in the days of Izaak Walton. He cites a few extracts from Thomas Barker’s book, “Barker’s Delight” (1651).

Mr. Barker commends several sorts of palmer-flies; not only those ribbed with silver and gold but others that have their bodies all made of black; or some with red and a red hackle”.

From that we can take it that the fly is possibly as old as the mid 17th century. But what is less clear is the designation of “red”. Red is an old word, still in use today which often meant auburn or horse chestnut brown as in Red Game, Red Kite, Red Deer, Irish Red Setter and of course, red hair. So just because we see “red” in a dressing description, it doesn’t necessarily mean the red we might mean today. Indeed, the term “red palmer” has often been a linked with the soldier palmer and caused much confusion through the ages. In early writings, the term actually refers to the hackle colour rather than the body colour. So what we really ought to be looking for is something that directly mentions “soldier” in the title.

In 1645 The English Army started to wear red coats. These were originally a madder red. Scarlet was only worn by sergeants and officers. It’s unlikely though that a fly would suddenly appear so soon after the new uniforms were issued. People need time to make associations with things. So a guess could be made that by 1700 there could have been a red fly with “soldier” in the title. Unfortunately there seems to be little written evidence of it as pattern dressings in those days were all rather vague.

In 1841 James Dalziel Dougal wrote in “Salmon and Trout Angling” of the palmer. His first mention of it takes the form of a plain hackled fly of a red or black hackle which by the sound of it is dressed much like a modern loch ordie. In other words just a hackle. He then goes on to describe a sea trout pattern with a red palmer and a red or orange body with gold tinsel. Again, from the description it is clear that the term “red palmer” means the hackle colour, not the body. Even at this late date there is no mention of “soldier” anywhere in the text.

Over in Ireland, in 1845 James O’ Gorman fleetingly mentions a “soldier” in his “The Practice of Angling” but goes into no detail about the dressing. However, by 1855 the great Wicklow and London fly dresser, William Blacker, gives a dressing for what he calls the “soldier fly” (possibly the one mentioned by O’ Gorman) in his outstanding work “Blacker’s Art of Fly Making Comprising Angling and Dyeing of Colours”.

# 7. The Soldier Fly.

The body is made of scarlet-coloured mohair, ribbed with
fine gold twist and two black-red cock hackles run up over the body from the tail, a small furnace hackle round the throat and a darkish starling wing. The dark red furnace hackle has a dark mark round the edges
. The black-red, I believe, can be taken as being a very dark red game.


Click the image to open in full size.


However, Blacker then goes on to say that a peacock herl body can also be used which once again muddies the soldier/red palmer water. Nevertheless, this is the first pattern I can find so far where scarlet and “soldier” is used, as opposed to red, which, as already mentioned, could be a misnomer by today’s standards.

Consequently it is my belief that it was around the early to mid 19th century that the “Soldier Palmer” proper was born, no doubt a product of the Victorian zeal for exactitude. A melding of the attributes of a much older pattern with the name of a newer one to give us a wingless Soldier Fly (much like a wingless Wickham’s) or Soldier Palmer.


Click the image to open in full size.


Who actually coined the term is still a mystery.

By the early part of the 20th century the soldier palmer and red palmer were recognised patterns in their own right as shown here from the dressing given in Wooley,s “Modern Trout Fly Dressing (1932).


Click the image to open in full size.


The above is just a theory borne of some research and a little imagination, everyone please chip in with your tuppence worth if you have any documented evidence. It would be nice to trace the named pattern as far back as possible.

Below is a history of the patterns development in my own fly box. Top row: Late 70s/ early 80s, late 80s/ early 90s, all cock hackle.

Bottom row: Late 90s/ early 00s, this seasons revisionist pattern, both with dark brown hen hackle shoulder.


Click the image to open in full size.


Over to you guys for the variants. Yes, you know who you are.
__________________
I admit it, I have sharpness issues.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:18 PM
squeeks's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Teessider in York
Posts: 407
squeeks is on a distinguished road
Default

Great thread and cracking flies!

I read somewhere (don't ask where!) that it's name may be due to it originally being a red soldier beetle pattern . . . and the soldier beetle was named after the soldier's redcoats - may be a bit tenuous, dunno

Last edited by squeeks; 12-03-2010 at 06:26 PM. Reason: edited to make more sense
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Near Glasgow
Posts: 2,376
Blog Entries: 4
Former member 6 is on a distinguished road
Default

Nice bit of work there.
__________________
Tight Lines. :)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:35 PM
Scratch's Avatar
Trade Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chorley
Posts: 8,343
Scratch has a spectacular aura aboutScratch has a spectacular aura about
Default

"That's a formidable and erudite piece of piscatrorial nosey-parkering" said Burglar Bill. "I'll have that". And I'll buy it too.... life's too short to do the research..... we've got you anyway


Quote:
Originally Posted by squeeks View Post
Great thread and cracking flies!

I read somewhere (don't ask where!) that it's name may be due to it originally being a red soldier beetle pattern . . . and the soldier beetle was named after the soldier's redcoats - may be a bit tenuous, dunno
The Soldier Palmer certainly works well when Soldier Beetles are on the water. 12's and 14's best.
__________________
Too much Saturn, not enough Moon.

Buzzers 2012


Fly Clips & Stands
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:37 PM
A. Fluker's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: On the Edge
Posts: 6,595
A. Fluker is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Just first rate.

Thanks.

__________________
[COLOR="Blue"]"A fish seen is a fish nearly caught"[/COLOR]
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:03 PM
silversedge's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Beith,north Ayrshire
Posts: 4,185
silversedge is on a distinguished road
Default

Fantastic bit of work there midlander,always had a soft spot for a soldier palmer
__________________
Silversedge
LETS TACKLE CANCER SUPPORTER
"MON THE HILL CLIMBERS!!"
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:37 PM
North Country Angler's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2,325
North Country Angler is on a distinguished road
Default

Alex I love you and I want to breed with you and make lots of ickle Soldier Palmers and Greenwells Glorys. You are truly the master of the 'lengthy preamble' and although you are a sad man of the highest order, you make me feel all warm inside.
Thanks for a terrific post chief!


M
__________________
The sun pushed dark spokes of melt and sparkle
Across the fields of hoar. And the river steamed -
Flint-olive.



http://northcountryangler.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:46 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 3,518
g bigtrout is on a distinguished road
Default

Cant add much to that, even has the classic spelling of my surname in the 1800,s when half the locals couldnt even use a pencil.

Nice thread.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 09:41 PM
Scratch's Avatar
Trade Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chorley
Posts: 8,343
Scratch has a spectacular aura aboutScratch has a spectacular aura about
Default

A couple to be getting on with....

Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Too much Saturn, not enough Moon.

Buzzers 2012


Fly Clips & Stands
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2010, 09:48 PM
troutheaven's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,247
troutheaven will become famous soon enough
Default

A 'palmer' was a returning crusader because they brought back palm fronds from the Holy Land, and because they travelled so much they were likened to the 'wooly bear' caterpillars. Hence, soldier palmer which looks very much like a 'wooly bear' caterpillar.
__________________
Stan Headley

"I started this life with nothing......and I've still got most of it left!"
Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On







All times are GMT. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Loading...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2006-2011 Fish&Fly Ltd