Vices. Over engineered?

[Bougle]

Looking at various sites at vices, after reading a few threads on here where people are looking for new ones.

I cant help but wonder if these high end vices are simply over engineered for the sake of it.

I appreciate well made stuff as much as the next man (or woman), but is it really necessary? It holds a hook tight, and can be rotated, is it worth spending >£500 for a vice???

[maharg]

I agree, but the tackle tarts love them.
A Lada will take you on a 200 mile journey, but aint it nicer to go in a Rolls

[spanielpup]

I agree - totally over engineered! and totally overpriced - but that seems to be true of virtually everything to do with Fly Fishing. Products made in China have not reduced the cost to the Angler of anything as manufacturers just get larger margins.

The name on a rod seems to have an historical value which gives the seller the right to charge hundreds of pounds for what must only be a few quid for the blanks, and fittings.

[3lbgrayling]

BLING BLING.and don't we love it.

Jim

[maharg]

Its the magpie symdrome in us all.
If its shiny I am having it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve Walker]

Quality engineering is a pleasure to use, though - and isn't pleasure the point of all of this?

I'm starting to think my 35 quid vice was too cheap. It doesn't clamp firmly to the table, and although the jaws can be rotated, you have to loosen them first.

I couldn't justify 500 quid, but I think I should probably have spent three times as much as I did.

[g bigtrout]

Yes for less than 10 quid the quality they use to hold a hook is great

Aint she a beauty

[DownStream]

My first vice cost (well?) under a tenner - didn't rotate but did clamp to the bench.

I began to learn to tie flies - and they caught me some fish - happy.

Next vice was a snowbee - rotates, clamps to bench, and is shiny - but if I'm honest doesn't actually tie any better flies - though it is slightly more convenient to use.

Caught two fish on flies tied in its jaws this weekend - still happy.

[steveparton]

No , the way this game plays is that it is long term and quite clever on the part of the Chinese . First you wreck all Western Manufacturers and then guess what happens to the prices ?
Naturally the Chinese aren't on their own - there's a fair bit now being done in Vietnam ( which is actually cheaper than China ) and the next places manufacturing will move to will be Indonesia and then Brazil - interestingly the Chinese have a stated policy of taking a further 400,000,000 off the land and into Manufacturing which will effectively double World Manufacturing Capability - and what the long term implications of that are nobody has the least idea !

So where does that leave us as buyers both Wholesale and Retail ( that's you by the way ! ) There is no doubt but that when you move your production to the far East you lose some of the refinement and eventually all of the cache that you developed when you actually were Western Based and ultimately your ability to charge extortion money based on an old reputation collapses .

I was once happily employed in the Bike Trade driving like an old time overseer the 3000 folks who once worked for me personally making frames and forks and painting them for Mr Raleigh - I haven't been for the last 26 years as only 10,000 of us went down the road when that game went east !

And who are Raleigh these days ? And who will be Mr Hardy and Mr Orvis , Mr Sage and Mr Loomis in 15 years time? Answers on a postcard .

Some folks are doing very well out of China and these are the ones who keep margins tight and compete on the reality of the situation and some of them are smaller than you think - you have only got to be big enough to take yourself personally to China and fund a couple of container loads and flog them - and you are well away. Glasgow Angling did it quite recently with wooden flyboxes ( which certainly contributed in busting poor old Delos in Birmingham !)

Me I'm now effectively out of it in terms of flyrods - a decade ago I was doing around 400 p.a. This year 60? Last week I was offered substitution flyrods in bags and cases , admittedly with snake rings but at the massive sum of $10 ! And this sort of product , which is eminently useable has done me and the UK rodbuilders in as it has to ( I can't buy the bits for a British Flyrod this side of £75 )- then apart from making a 50% profit ( essential for avoiding a banruptcy ) I also have to build them , make the rodbags and the tube !
My cost stack is £125 - the substitution , freighted landed and duty paid - £15 - and any **** can go buy some and most of them seem to , and especially the part timers who work from home garages and keep costs down by not involving HM Customs and Excise or the Inland Revenue !

So there's now likely around 8 million in this country on some form of expensive alternate careers - there's The Unemployment , Sickness Benefit , Jobseekers and maybe 4,000,000 in unnecessary education from whence they proceed to burger flipping , call centres and the folks who monitor your nose picking activities in your car with a view to prosecuting you for what little money you have left .

Me I think I could get around 10,000 back to work but your fishing tackle would be a bit more expensive !

So welcome to the Brave New ( State Dependent and Slowly Going Backwards ) World .

And in response to the original question - the best hold you will get from a vice is the one given by the Engineer's Clamp system - the cammed Griffin Patriot is the basic successful design of the last decade and no I haven't got any in stock - the collapse of the pound against the dollar has led me to suspect that you won't pay me £145 for the real thing from the USA .

Perhaps somebody out there is doing a Chinese Monkey Metal version which should retail at around £39.95 ! ( Or maybe the £19.95 that it should ! )

I must get out and do more canvassing for the Right Wing - somebody's got to see the back of the present lot who have most effectively bust our Manufacturing Capability Nationally - is Gordon Brown one of Stalin's Sleeper Agents ? Or are the whole damned jang, bang and boiling of them ? Don't answer - just go vote !

Steve Parton

[Mrtrout]

I can apreciate the quality in a LAW vice, or any expensive vice, sound engineering and classic good looks are a joy to behold.
I would love a LAW and would have one tomorrow, if I thought myself worthy of owning one.
My trouble is I can't warrant owning a vice of that price, as I wouldn't do it justice. I tie a small amount and although they catch me fish, they are hardly pretty things, and I don't think the extra cost would improve my fly tying skills one jot.
I have a very capable vice bought from Terry Phillips on here, about two years ago at £25. It holds a hook fine, has true rotation, and works for me.
I beleive in buying what you desire in life, you are only here once, and if it makes you happy then all well and good.
For me it's reels, I have a terrible weakness.
S.