Jungle cock Matuka thing- comments please

[neil26]

whilst tying some viva small lures i looked at the jungle cock side feathers and thought i would try to use them- all comments or advice gratefully recieved- im am a beginner.



or:





thanks

[stockiebashersLtd]

Reminds me of an ace of spades. They look well tied, and i'm sure they'll have their day like any fly does. A bit of creativity is essential in fly tying, i find. I'm no expert, but the bottom one looks like it could be a good sea trout streamer.

[steveparton]

This is not new - both Tom Saville and Dick Walker came up with this style of dressings in the 60's and 70's . And they work but nothing to write home to Mother about .
You can even dye the white components to make variations .

Useful way of getting rid of otherwise unuseable JC body feathers .

Except as a responsible Trader I have to point out that the JC is an endangered species - CITES banned in trafficking - and yet still widely smuggled - and wholly unecessary for the purposes of actually catching fish ( I have not used a JC fly/lure since the ban was imposed .)

Some 15 years ago a fellow trader was actually invited to Belfast Dock by Customs & Excise who made him watch whilst they set fire to £7,000 worth of JC he'd been unlucky enought to have intercepted by them !

Me I won't touch the things - life is hard enough already and I have never forgotten what Terry Thomas ( Angling Today and the late and very great caster and trade insider ) once said to me on the matter of Domestically Reared JC " My boy , you'd be absolutely startled by the number of feathers that 6 breeding pairs appear to produce in a year !"

Use them feathers up and say now't !

Steve Parton

[g bigtrout]

Interesting Neil...i have been working with church window ones.

[flyinghigh]

Originally Posted by steveparton

This is not new - both Tom Saville and Dick Walker came up with this style of dressings in the 60's and 70's . And they work but nothing to write home to Mother about .
You can even dye the white components to make variations .

Useful way of getting rid of otherwise unuseable JC body feathers .

Except as a responsible Trader I have to point out that the JC is an endangered species - CITES banned in trafficking - and yet still widely smuggled - and wholly unecessary for the purposes of actually catching fish ( I have not used a JC fly/lure since the ban was imposed .)

Some 15 years ago a fellow trader was actually invited to Belfast Dock by Customs & Excise who made him watch whilst they set fire to £7,000 worth of JC he'd been unlucky enought to have intercepted by them !

Me I won't touch the things - life is hard enough already and I have never forgotten what Terry Thomas ( Angling Today and the late and very great caster and trade insider ) once said to me on the matter of Domestically Reared JC " My boy , you'd be absolutely startled by the number of feathers that 6 breeding pairs appear to produce in a year !"

Use them feathers up and say now't !

Steve Parton

Sure that felt like a kick in the balls for him.
Why do they not just rear the Jungle Cock on a commercial scale the way chickens are for the capes.

[neil26]

Originally Posted by steveparton

This is not new - both Tom Saville and Dick Walker came up with this style of dressings in the 60's and 70's . And they work but nothing to write home to Mother about .
You can even dye the white components to make variations .

Useful way of getting rid of otherwise unuseable JC body feathers .

Except as a responsible Trader I have to point out that the JC is an endangered species - CITES banned in trafficking - and yet still widely smuggled - and wholly unecessary for the purposes of actually catching fish ( I have not used a JC fly/lure since the ban was imposed .)

Steve Parton

so... if i buy a jungle cock cape in the uk it must be smuggled in? or is it just the case of needing a permit?
i 've just found this- quite informative and answered both my questions

The FDG

[Chris Reeves]

Read the Fly Dressers Guild websites "are You legal?" article.

And as to why don't they breed them commercially, the answer is you can't.
They require loads of space, privacy and exacting climatic conditions to breed.They do not breed well in captivity and the cost of rearing a fully caped cock bird to maturity would mean you'd be paying £200 plus per cape.

The reason so many are coming into the UK is that they are stil being killed in numbers in India for food.

There are many thousands of capes in the country already, I am amazed the HMC&E do not act on the ebay sales of JC from Germany and agree with Steve, If you have it, use it up quietly, be thankful you have/had it and move on to something less controversial.

The UK Fishery and Wildlife enforcment is poor to say the least. In the states it is sufficient to be in possesion of part of an endangered species to commit an offence let alone try and trade it.

[Jackwow]

Originally Posted by Chris Reeves

....., I am amazed the HMC&E do not act on the ebay sales of JC from Germany.....

What about all the UK retailers advertising it on their websites, are they all selling illegal JC?

[maharg]

If the birds are still being eaten in India I assume they are domesticated birds?
Or are they being taken from the wild by the locals?
If they are domesticated birds I dont see what the problem is.
Most of our fly tying materials are bye products from other sources.
It must be better to use the capes and make a bit of money for the locals than just dumping the skins with the guts.

P.S. Your flies look good to me Neil.

[neil26]

thanks for the feedback -

i agree with maharg if they are the bye product of food then great, but would worry that the food is the bye product of the capes?
-

i have done a bit of research into keeping jungle fowl sonnerat in the UK and it seems quite a bit more envolved than the chickens i keep at present.


tonight i shall try a jungle cock ace of spades or perhaps a pheasant matuka thing.