Blue Jay

[ameliasdaddy]

I bought a couple of Jay wings last week to try and having taken a couple of feathers off the wing I'm confused. They don't look like hackle feathers as the stem seems quite heavy but any patterns I see incorporating this feather look hackled to me. Can I tie in and splay like a dabbler or must they be hackled.

Help please.......

[guest21]

Originally Posted by ameliasdaddy

I bought a couple of Jay wings last week to try and having taken a couple of feathers off the wing I'm confused. They don't look like hackle feathers as the stem seems quite heavy but any patterns I see incorporating this feather look hackled to me. Can I tie in and splay like a dabbler or must they be hackled.

Help please.......

You can either strip the speculum feathers and tie them as a 'false beard' or split the feather stem and wind as a hackle.

[BobP]

Another method for Golden Olive Bumbles and the like is to pull a bunch of fibres off the feather, get the tips more or less aligned and tie in as a bunch facing forward over the hook eye at the start of tying the fly. Then proceed to tie the rest of the fly and at the end pull the jay fibres back into the hackle position, support with several turns of thread and whip finish. It's a bit like putting on a Dabbler wing, only you do it at the start of tying the fly rather than at the end.

[chris68]

+1 for BobP's method, works fine for me

Chris

[tack4]

another vote for Bobp's method

thats the way i was taught and works great.

+ its allready tied in and no fiddle at the end

makes you keep a correct space for head and whip finish

[Former member]

I prefer to split the stalk and wind as that way the blue side is always facing forward whereas if you tie them forward in a bunch then draw them back you show a lot of the darker side of the feather and not the blue side. This method also results in a more even splay.
Gerry

[mayflyjunky]

My self I prefer to shoulder hackle the feather. I always got the impression you didn't get as much fibres or lost some by them twisting, when you tie the fibres in seperately.

IMO, the whole secret to the shoulder hackles of blue jay is to get lay the thread on the shank of the hook, as level as possible. The idea being, when you tie in your jay you want then turns to be touching or as tight to each other as you can.

By having the base level, the blue jay is less likely to slip as you turn it leaving a gap, which is what causes trouble.

Using your hackle pliers catch your feather at the very tip and stroke the feathers back (against the grain, if you know what I mean)
Strip the dark feathers but leave the few at the tip.

You will notice after stripping, one side of the stem is white. Tie in the feather at the tip and as you turn, also twist the feather, to ensure the white side is facing down towards the shank of the hook. When you feel you have enough, 3-4 turns of thread to secure the stem and snip.

Then its just a matter of using a small tube, like a pen, to push over the eye eveningly pushing the fibres back, hold in place with your fingers, build up the head and finish.

Sorry I have made this seem complicated but honestly it's not.

[troutheaven]

About thirty years ago Bob Carnill came and stayed with me in Orkney. Believe it or not, Bumbles were a bit like Dabblers today, fairly newish and all the rage. Everyone tied in the blue jay by splitting the stalk and winding the feather as a hackle.

Bob & I were dissatisfied with this because it tended to produce bulky heads, so we explored other methods of tying in blue jay. It was Bob, I think, who came up with the idea of stripping the fibres from the stalk, and I who suggested tying them in pointing forward, stroking them back as a final step.

The only time I vary from this technique is when I am left with the double sided spades after the fibres have been stripped. These wind perfectly, just like hackles.

[BobP]

When I get a trout come up and tell me that he isn't going to take the Golden Olive Bumble I'm offering him because some of the jay fibres are the wrong way round I'll walk across the Atlantic. Same for the trout that decides my mayfly isn't good enough because it has five tails instead of the three it should have, or that my daddylonglegs legs have only got one knot instead of two.

If you want to fiddle around splitting jay feathers then fine. I've done it and it's a pain in the a**e. One thing is for sure, I guarantee it won't catch any more trout.

[mayflyjunky]

Originally Posted by BobP

When I get a trout come up and tell me that he isn't going to take the Golden Olive Bumble I'm offering him because some of the jay fibres are the wrong way round I'll walk across the Atlantic. Same for the trout that decides my mayfly isn't good enough because it has five tails instead of the three it should have, or that my daddylonglegs legs have only got one knot instead of two.

If you want to fiddle around splitting jay feathers then fine. I've done it and it's a pain in the a**e. One thing is for sure, I guarantee it won't catch any more trout.

Each to their own mate.

No one said either method was right or wrong.