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Old 07-01-2010, 02:06 PM
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Default L'ombra Dun Patterns

Okay,
Here is a tying that I have been experimenting with for the past 12 months.
I thought I would share it with you.
The intent is to develop a pattern where the hook dropped straight down rather than sit horizontal on the water. There are reasons why I wanted this but I won't bore you.
Type 1 - Foam bodied - Light Olive - Size 18.
This pattern requires a large hackle so that when it sits on the water, the body is supported above it.
Click the image to open in full size.

Type 2 - CDC bodied - Dun - Size 18.
This pattern can get away with a smaller hackle as the body is much lighter.
Click the image to open in full size.

In both of these patterns, the trick is in how you develop the body. In Type 1, it is superglued in place. In Type 2, it requires the stem to be removed so that it can be 'kinked' forward.

They are reasonably easy to tie once you have mastered the body.

As I said, these have been developed for a purpose and if anyone isn interested a lengthy PM will give them some information.

Both of these flies have worked really well for me, especially on Grayling and this may be because of the manner in which the hook sits.

BTW, why the name L'ombra? Well it is Italian form 'shadow' and that is what is presented to the fish.

Enjoy.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:28 PM
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Interesting Phil.

Have you considered using unbrella hooks? They are designed for this very purpose:
Umbrella Hooks - $9.00 : Fly Tying Specialties
Deer Creek - Hooks

Cheers,
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dwiltshire View Post
Interesting Phil.

Have you considered using unbrella hooks? They are designed for this very purpose:
Umbrella Hooks - $9.00 : Fly Tying Specialties
Deer Creek - Hooks

Cheers,
Great observation Dave. In my research I looked at a couple of patterns. One was the 'Umbrella Fly":
Click the image to open in full size.
And the Italian flies which are tied on a loom:
Click the image to open in full size.
There are a couple of reasons why I did not go for the 'Umbrella Hook' which is to with design and water currents (A huge discussion if you call me) and I didn't go for the Italian style because of complexity.
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:09 PM
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Fascinating Phil. Can you send me the PM please? Actually, why not just post it?!
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Old 08-01-2010, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
Fascinating Phil. Can you send me the PM please? Actually, why not just post it?!
One of the things I have noticed that is different between how the fish view the fly here to that in Australia is how finicky they are when 'micro' drag sets in on a dry fly. The fish in Australia don't seem to be as worried about this probably because the food chain is probably dominated by terrestrials and caddis.
So, this problem has been a subject of research over the past couple of years.

Obviously, a lot of the problem can be overcome through changing fishing techniques. Take the boys who fish the Clyde for example. They use a pretty long leader and make sure that there is a lot of slack tippet material on the water to achieve a long drag free drift. I also use this technique and it does overcome some of the problems.

The question I asked myself was 'what is the relationship between the way we tie our flies and 'micro drag?'. A bit a..n...l I agree but never the less I have been pondering this on and off over the past couple of years. These are some of things I have discovered though close observation. Others may agree or disagree but that's fishing.

Traditional fly design where the body is produced along the hook shank doesn't help the situation. My close observation is that this type of fly acts a bit like a boat in the current (I am not going to even go close to suggesting that a traditional dry fly sits on the tips of its hackle and tail points - I'll leave that right alone) where the small surface currents can make it behave a lot differently to a natural insect. Add a traditional hackle style to it and you then turn the fly into a 'barge like' construction. The alteration of the design into a parachute does help but you still have a fairly large surface area sitting on the water. If these are tied on standard hooks then you have a 'keel' in the shape of the hook bend.

These days, there are a lot of patterns tied on wide gape hooks similar in shape to 'grub' hooks. The problems I have seen with this style is that on one hand you have an even bigger 'keel' (in the case where the body is detached) or the body under the surface increasing the size of the 'keel' (in the case where a body is made around the gape). Even with this style of hook, there is still a small body and generally the hackle sits above it. My close observation is that the impact of drag on this fly only improves if it has a detached body.

I was fascinated by watching Terenzio Zandri tie his loom flies at the BFFI in 2008. This style has the hook hanging loosely under the fly. I wondered if this could be an answer to reducing drag. I have some of his flies and I tried them early last season. While they did float very well with the body ABOVE the water, the large hackle detracted from reducing the micro drag. I am still fascinated by the flies and I am in the process of learning the tying style because I believe some small changes might produce a great pattern.

I came across the 'Umbrella' pattern quite by accident. It seemed to me that having everything above the water surface and a hook hanging straight down would have the fly acting more like a natural. So I altered a couple of hooks and tied up a pattern using a detached foam body. The result was a vast improvement and the fly acted more natural that anything else I had used. Ulf Hagstrom's 'Killer Mayfly' pattern is similar to the Umbrella style but uses a different hook.

Now I thought about upside down patterns. This is nothing new and when Clarke & Goddard bought out the book showing this pattern I know a lot of people tried them. But they haven't become a 'fly box must have'. A pity really as the technique is great and still used by Roy Christie (he has shown me a small UPD fly he uses). I wanted something that was a pretty simple fly to produce so I started to revert back to the 'Umbrella' style.

I also re-visited Neil Patterson's 'Funnel Dun' technique. I have used this style a lot in the past and really like it. It is similar to an USD pattern.

However, I admit that I am still in the old fashioned school and believe that a hook with the gape down has better hooking power. No doubt, people with have alternative view and experience on this.

So from all of this came this style. I call it 'style' because I also do a caddis pattern with the hook straight down. My observation in its use was that having the hook hanging straight down, there was less micro drag. Having the body sit above the water surface achieved a more realistic presentation. So I am happy with it and have a 'special box' in my vest with just these patterns in it.

As I said, they hook grayling very well, probably because of the way the fly sits and the hook hangs.

But you do need a longer shank hook. I have used a Partridge BIN hook on these and it means I don't need to use the special 'umbrella' hooks that Dave was referring to.

Hope this is helpful.
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Old 08-01-2010, 09:58 AM
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Phil, I'm nor sure it will help that much. The tippet / line has more influence on drag imo than fly design ....I have tried using very light small surface flies and run them beside leaves and the drag effect is still obviously greater not due to the fly design per se ( same problems with Klinks) , but mainly due to the fact that one has a tow rope hanging from it at the leaf doesnt .....i think ultra light tippets with very small flies will always be a key. Just me tuppence .....amazing fly by the way , and good booklet ....finally got to read it when my 4 year old daughter gave it to me for christmas !
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:17 AM
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Not sure if i am following this correctly,but the way i see it is similar to Spider,it has to be the tippet material that causes the drag.
If you tied any fly and threw it on the water without it being attatched to anything,would it still drag?.Its only when you tether it that other forces come into play.
Or am i wrong?

Paul
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Spider View Post
Phil, I'm nor sure it will help that much. The tippet / line has more influence on drag imo than fly design ....I have tried using very light small surface flies and run them beside leaves and the drag effect is still obviously greater not due to the fly design per se ( same problems with Klinks) , but mainly due to the fact that one has a tow rope hanging from it at the leaf doesnt .....i think ultra light tippets with very small flies will always be a key. Just me tuppence .....amazing fly by the way , and good booklet ....finally got to read it when my 4 year old daughter gave it to me for christmas !
Yes very good points. I tie my leader tippet to the fly using a loop knot. But the problem is with the remainder of the leader.
The Italians are looking at this and one guy - Massimo Magliocco - has designed a leader that is supposed to help with this problem:
Click the image to open in full size.
Now this does not use a loop to loop connection in the traditional way. His loops are made to swivel.
I have made a few of these leaders up and used them in the late season. They do work but I need to play around with them a bit more.
However, the point of the thread is to 'open up our minds' and look for innovation. The fly is like that and now the leader. I am a tease (lol)
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly in mi eye View Post
Not sure if i am following this correctly,but the way i see it is similar to Spider,it has to be the tippet material that causes the drag.
If you tied any fly and threw it on the water without it being attatched to anything,would it still drag?.Its only when you tether it that other forces come into play.
Or am i wrong?

Paul
Paul, you are not wrong. The leader and fly line does cause the fly to behave abnormally. But I have floated fly patterns down beside naturals and they still behave differently to the natural.
The fact is that when there is anything attached to the fly it will always have an impact. I try and keep as much off the water as possible to try and minimise the impact. That is why I believe longer rods are a better tool (having dais that I have a lot of short rods too), at least you have the chance to keep a lot of the leader and line off the water.
For example, a longer rod will allow you to keep away from the drift. Here is a slide that goes someway towards demonstrating what I mean (It was used to demonstrate something else but it gives the right message).
Click the image to open in full size.
You only just begin to imagine the impact all of the mini currents will have on a line and leader.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:19 PM
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There are reasons why I wanted this but I won't bore you..
............Try us.
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