basic problem

[williamelfyn]

Am I stupid (okay I am asking for it) but try as I may, whatever I do, I cannot get whatever I tie, not to slip on the hook. This came home to me when I created a post to tie a Adam's parashute. Maybe there is an easy answer - I have tried superglue - still slips, different threads - still slip - the books don't mention this problem, the tutorials in forums/youtube don't mention this. They just say tie on firmly - is this said with tongue in cheek! Perhaps everyone assumes you know how to tie a pattern which does not slip on the hook. I reckon every fly I have tied I can 'twist' on the hook - very irritating and any help/answers would be most appreciated. I hope answers help everyone and I have been cheeky to start a new thread as I feel it is so fundamental - like building your house on sand.

[jonnied17-2008]

para posts do have a tendancy for this. You could try the davie mcphail way, by doubling the post material under and around the shank and tying in, or the HVK way by tying it in a taper along the body. If you create a few good layers of thread at the base of the post this will normally keep it still, give a couple of figure -of-eights around the base too. A little varnish can make areally solid pattern. Personally I just double the post yarn on top of the hook, and use thread to secure it. Works fine for me.

[arkle]

Rather than "BUILDING YOUR HOUSE ON SAND" you seem to be building your house WITH sand, as the hook is solid & the thread isn't. Are you using a spigot bobbin holder & is it set up so that the thread comes out smoothly when under a small amount of tension ? I would imagine that you need some practical help, i.e. someone watching what you're doing & is able to correct you both before & when you make these errors. Go to The FDG & see if there's a branch near you, if so please join it & all the mysteries will vanish.

[Chris Reeves]

Two things, firstly there are no stupid questions but sometimes you do get stupid answers.
Secondly, this is a really important step to crack as it is the most basic of errors but also the most easily solved.

Thread control involves two things, Tension and Torsion.

Tension involves the strength of your thread wraps and torsion the twist on your thread.

I always ask new students to wrap and re wrap a hook and keep increasing pressure until the thread breaks. I then ask them to tie at around 85% of that tension. This allows you a little more to tighten up on slippery materials while maintaining sufficent tension to stop the materials slipping around the shank.


Torsion is lesson 2

The last post before mine is spot on. Find a professional and/or take a class. If you are local to Surrey PM me and I'll give you a free one plus point you in the general direction of several clubs, guild branches etc.

Cheers

[stevekale]

A well-tied para post shouldn't slip, period. The above two posts are on the money.

[williamelfyn]

It will be interesting what I learn on friday night as there is an affiliated FDG near Porthmadog of which I am a member. Even though I have tied flies for years - mostly seatrout flies, it was the realisation that tying the Adam's para where it came home to me there was a basic weakness in the way I was using my thread. I shall try the advice from jonnied17-2008 - and will report back after friday. Hopefully my Adam's paras will be totally solid and not twist around the hook at will! I am grateful for all the above and hopefully those new to fly tying will benefit from your advice. Thank you.

[stevekale]

You may find these useful:

Charlie's FlyBox - Colorado's Best FlyShop and online Fly Tying Tutorials

(the below is a different parachute fly but newer tutorial)

Charlie's FlyBox - Colorado's Best FlyShop and online Fly Tying Tutorials

[williamelfyn]

The post itself has been no problem, that is totally solid and the thread does not slip on that - it is when I get hold of the post and find that I can rotate it anywhere around the hook that I found disturbing and that I must correct otherwise I am wasting my good metz hackles! I must sit down and try again.

[jonnied17-2008]

Originally Posted by williamelfyn

otherwise I am wasting my good metz hackles! I must sit down and try again.

nevermind it could have been a problem if you'd have said whiting

[stevekale]

Originally Posted by williamelfyn

The post itself has been no problem, that is totally solid and the thread does not slip on that - it is when I get hold of the post and find that I can rotate it anywhere around the hook that I found disturbing and that I must correct otherwise I am wasting my good metz hackles! I must sit down and try again.

If you are figure-eighting the foundation for the post (as in the SBS I linked to) it's virtually impossible for the post to then spin around the hook unless the entire thread base is extremely loose. If all you do is have a single wrap at the base before posting then I could see how it could spin slightly but not enormously as the posting adds - at a minimum - two more half wraps of anchor.