Fly tying vice design

[eager]

Hi
Im new here

Anyway, im on my second year doing a BTEC in engineering & manufacturing. I have a project to design this year and i have chose a fly tying vice.

In this, i could do with a bit of market help. Customer views, how much would you pay for a vice, ones you have used and ones you dont like with reasoning for your dislikes.

What price range would a new vice fall into if you had to buy a new one ?
<£50
<£100
<£200
£200+

I myself have used the basic lever actioned ones using a cam shape to pull vice closed, and a regent type design.

What features would you maybe like on a vice that feel are not really catered for at the minute in time if any ?

Have you ever had to return a vice or bin it because of poor design or short lifespan ?

I have emailed sportfish and also lakelandflytying. With some similar questions bure more from a retailers side.


Many thanks
David

[3lbgrayling]

Welcome to the forum. Quite a complicated challenge.best of luck

Jim

[BRUCE1]

personally i think all vice jaws should have milled grooves in them like LAW vices , as for price for a new one now stepping up from what i have upto £200,should have a precise well engineered rotation with a simple but efficient tightening wheel for the jaws again like the LAW without fear of thinking your over tightening the jaws are the main part that you work with so should be of exceptional design allowing freedom of movement around the jaws ........

[eager]

Thanks Guys.
Do you know anywhere else that might be worthwhile emailing or registering to forums ?
I also need a basic bit of information if anybody has it for comparrison oh hook sizes.

I need overall length, shank length, gap size, front length, bite/throat. for one small hook and one larger hook for comparrison, something like size 6, size 12 and size 18

in mm

Many thanks
David

[Jackwow]

I bought a new vice last year for £195.

[3lbgrayling]

Originally Posted by Jackwow

I bought a new vice last year for £195.

Do you like it,.

Jim

[eager]

Originally Posted by 3lbgrayling

Do you like it,.

Jim

And what did it replace ? Any flaws ? What one ?

[weight_forward]

Hi Eager

The things I would like to see in a vice;

1) Smooth jaws, not serrated (I don’t want the jaws to mark the hook).
2) Hardened tool steel jaws (I don’t want them distorting)
3) Near to on axis rotation, this doesn’t have to have multiple ball bearings like some of the top end vices have.
4) Jaw geometry optimised for the range of hooks I tie the most 16 to 8, I don’t tie salt water or pike flies or tiny little midges so why compromise.
5) Light weight (I don’t have a dedicated tying bench, so move around a bit)
6) Pedestal base (as above)

As it happens I’m in the process of having the above vice manufactured, it looks a lot like a LAW to be honest (but most rotary vices look very similar).

One area I would look at if I where you is material selection (actually this is the most important consideration with a vice), the majority of vices on the market use metal of some sort (largely aluminium, sometimes stainless) this is massive overkill for the majority of the components which are very lightly loaded and not exposed to any harsh environments, lots of engineering plastics would be suitable for the majority of the components with the added benefit that they would be cheaper in material and production costs, you could rapid prototype the parts fairly easily. The only downside with plastics is getting away from the general assumption that metal is good / plastic is bad.

Don’t over complicate things, you can hold a hook perfectly well in a pair of mole grips, it’s the ergonomics that are important.

Price wise, I'd aim for sub £200, this takes you enough below the price of the top end vices whilst allowing enough budget so you don't cut too many corners

I hope that helps.

If you want to discuss further PM me, I’d be happy to help.

Steve

P.S. I'll measure up a selection of hooks for you tonight.

[jonnied17-2008]

I started off with a regent vice, very easy to use, just squeeze it and your away. The jaws were slightly chunky and tended to get in the way, especially on smaller patterns, and were a little abrasive at times so if I wasnt careful the thread would snap. Also the height of the vice on top of the base and the lightness of the base made it unstable. The screw adjustments that keep the vice in place loosened up very often, as did the screw on handle which was very annoying, but you could achieve most angles with this vice which was a help at times.

Now I use a dyna king, and I am much happier. The base is heavier, the shaft is thicker and shorter, but not too short. There are no adjustments at the base, therefore it does not work loose, but it can be unscrewed allowing it to be flat packed for storage. The jaws are smooth, unobtrusive and fine tipped, and do not wear away easily, and can be replaced. The lever cam allows me to put varying amounts of pressure on the hook- so I dont damage the wire. It can be rotated, but the head is solid, in my experience the less moving parts the better, especially on cheaper vices.

I also have a tiny hand held vice, which is of a very simple design that works well that maybe of interest to you. the jaws are just part of the shaft where the shaft has been split in two and tapered, and at the bottom of the split is a screw thread. A specialised nut goes over the top, screws onto the thread, the more you screw the thread down the more the jaws tighten.

Finally have a look at the c&f marco polo. Looks a dead easy vice to make, and I think if I had the cash I would buy it!

hope that helps.

[ACW]

Bit of a Luddite myself ,bought a thompson model A back in the 70s ,apart from a replacement pair of jaws a few years back have run with that ever since.
I cant find any acvantage to having all the bells and whistles other more expensive vices have !