Hackles: to trim or not (underneath the shank)

[tk8456]

I've tied up a load of hoppers today and some bob bits type flies

Some flies I've simple snipped away the underside of the hackle with the aim of making the flie sit lower in the water

When tying dries what do you think is better?

Trim or leave alone?

Thanks

John

[BRUCE1]

hi john,

i have done this myself even on some bought ones to sit the fly lower into the film ??

[flyfishwithme]

John,
That is a very good question.
One could argue that traditional tied flies with a hackle wound around the shank DO NOT sit on the tips of the tail and hackle points as writings would suggest. I believe that they sit flat in the water surface.
So based on my belief (others with argue that this is not correct but until I see the evidence while fishing it stands) trimming the hackle underneath only removes the hackle that protrudes the surface.
Now I will even go further and say that those hackle fibres sitting below the water line act as a trigger to the trout as they are tricked into believing that the imitation is an emerging fly.
Provactive enough for you?
Having said all of that, why do parachute flies perform so well? It is because the fly sits low in the water film suggesting either an emerging insect or a fly already emerged and ready to fly off. If you study the design of the Klinkhamer Special you will note that Hans Van Klinken ties his hackles in such a way that the thorax is pushed even further into the surface.
I have a fly of my own design where the hackles are trimmed in line with the hook point. The reason is so I can 'skitter' it across the surface.
So trim or not to trim. Could come down to a personal preference.

[arkle]

Trimmed, cut away, partly, wholly or untrimmed all have their uses in different situations. Richard Walker trimmed many patterns to suit requirements before he came up with the argument that soft (untrimmed) hen hackles would float better as the tips of the fibres would bend on the surface rather than penetrate it. Thus giving a slightly broader footprint.

This was around the time that the first "genetic" cock capes were coming over from Metz. Whether or not he saw them prior to making this statement I don't know, but the argument still "has legs" - no pun meant or intended. He passed away not long after.

[flickupflickback]

Hi there a vey interesting question indeed. I think as said before in this thread it is personal choice but i trim almost all my dries of there hackle as for me it makes the flies sit lower in the water and also seems to help with better hook ups. I found that dries with the hackle left on seemed to be pushed away by rising trout maybe this was just me but my catch rate on dries has definately improved since trimming.

[steve collyer]

I always trim the hackles on winged dry flies flush to the hook point underneath because I think it gives a much more natural look to the fly. 90% of the time it's landing with the shank horizontal to the water surface rather than on one side.

[Flyfishing-UK]

I trim most of the underneath hackle off to say maybe 2mm on a size 12 hopper/bits etc gets a better profile when the top is ginked up properly.

[guest3]

Hi', Arkle. you beat me to it. Dick Walker did say exactly what you wrote. You must have a good memory, because it must be getting on for thirty years since I read about his preference for 'henny-cock' hackles. He definitely had a thing about stiff hackles breaking the surface tension, and encouraging a dry fly to sit down or become bedraggled, unless 'well-oiled.'
Trimming away 'belly' hackles is a must for me when dressing palmered dapping flies. The Loch Ordie dapping fly, which was a result of a lack of communication or an inaccurate description, had to have a flying treble fitted, to assist hooking. It would have been both cheaper and quicker to have shaved its belly, in order to expose the hook point.
I can see the reason for wanting to settle a dry fly in the surface, when emergers or crippled flies, struggling spents etc are targeted by trout, but an un-greased dry fly will do this without having its belly shaved, an old mate used to soak the odd fly, that I gave him, with saliva.
There are occasions, especially when duns are in abundance, and flight delays are caused, by the weather for example, when trout prefer the high profile dry fly, on its tip-toes. If the river is clean, after a flush of fresh water, the surface tension is at its highest, and a good dry fly will occasionally roll over the surface when subjected to a puff of side wind. It doesn't happen a lot on some rivers that I fish!! TC

[flyfishwithme]

And exactly why I tie all of my NON PARACHUTE flies with good quality hen hackles.