materials / capes

[spidersplus]

The Whiting "green label" capes and saddles are very different from the "red label" capes and saddles.

The red label capes and saddles have a barb count roughly twice that of the green label - meaning less wraps of hackle to gain the same effect - meaning you use less hackles per fly (saving feathers, saving money) and less wraps of stem means a neater looking fly.

Sadly I cannot see the prices from Whiting coming down - at least not for a year or two.

The green label capes and saddles are far more readily available and are certainly cheaper than the red label ones - again for a reason!

By the way - only the dun, olive grizzle and black "red label" capes are dyed -the rest ARE natural colours.

Kind regards

[Trebletaper]

Originally Posted by Diawl Mawr

I'm new to fly tying, and have just ordered tools.

I'm now buying materials, which is completely bewildering. Any pointers to what I should be buying (sorry very open ended question)?

With regard to capes, they seem to vary massively in price from £4 to £30+. Is buying cheap a good or bad idea?

Thanks

The most important part of this post is highlighted - all mention of Genetic £30 capes is just daft IMO, do not buy loads of materials at once and certainly don't even entertain the idea of spending £20 plus on a cape.

Buy one maybe two cheap capes and practice with those. Build your materials up as your skills develop and you get an idea of what is it you wish to tie.

[spidersplus]

Diawl,

When I started tying, I did not have the benefit of advice from forums such as this one.

I started by buying Indian and Chinese capes, thinking that I had found a great deal in terms of cost but really struggled to tie hackles because, as both Dibbler and Ruthvenflyfisher state, the stems are very thick and oval in shape and I quickly found that the hackles were far too big.

(EDIT - sorry Gerry - I should have said Chinese, not Indian)

I remember that after taking a deep breath and leap of faith and investing in a genetic cape, everything became so much easier!

Yes, they are expensive but are a really good investment - they will last you many years and your tying will come on in leaps and bounds.

So many people who start tying give up very quickly due to struggling with inferior materials and tools - cheap soft metal vices that won't hold hooks, thick thread that frays far too easily, lumpy dubbing that just will not give a neat body and horrible capes that twist when wrapping on the hook.

So - please choose carefully - start with at least 8/0 thread rather than 6/0, buy some good quality dubbing and think on some good quality hackles.

If you email me your full name and address, I will send you some sample hackles with my compliments, so you can at least try a genetic hackle before you buy. I will also send you some Indian hackles so you can see the difference.

Kind regards

[tk8456]

I get half saddles if I were you.

The side feathers can be used used for wets and the central ones for dries. That's what i do anyway, I tie nice flies and more importantly that catch fish

I bought a huge batch of these saddles from lakelandflytying.
http://www.lakelandflytying.com/1512...er_Saddle.aspx
I think it was those anyway?
Ring him as he's usually great with advice and options.

[Former member]

Originally Posted by spidersplus

Diawl,

I started by buying indian capes, thinking that I had found a great deal in terms of cost but really struggled to tie hackles because, as both Dibbler and Ruthvenflyfisher state, the stems are very thick and oval in shape and I quickly found that the hackles were far too big.

Spidersplus
I did not state Indian hackles were no use I said that most genetic necks were not suitable for tying wets, bumbles, dabblers etc due to the barb being to stiff etc and that saddles were a better option for this style of fly, I never mentioned Indian capes once, in fact I use indian capes a lot, Hen capes, saddles and cock saddles and necks. Every capes has it's use and limitations it is more a case of choosing the right cape for the right type of flies. I will tie two Kate MacLarens this morning one tied using genetic Hackles and the other Indian and lets see if the difference is that obvious when posted
Gerry

[spidersplus]

Sorry Gerry - my mistake - I got India and China mixed up!

Post now edited to correct my error.

Kind regards

[Former member]

No probs Phil, just for the craic I have posted two Kates, one tied with Genetic Hackle and the other with Indian, both will take fish but I know what one I prefer and it is because of the type of fishing I do and it is dressed the way I like the finished article to look, hence the reason I would tie with that cape. Better to buy a cape for a particular style of fly rather than one to do various.

KATE 1


KATE 2


Cheers
Gerry


www.artifly.com

[neil26]

i recently bought some whiting half saddles from spiderplus and can recommend them highly- yes £28 seems expensive but indian capes are often around £6 and i recon i'll get far more flies from one decent cape than 4 or 5 indian capes.-
incidently i also bought a metz grade 3 half neck and it does not compare at all to the whiting bronze. far less barbs.
now i am quite new to tying, but i wish i had bought the decent capes first off for dry flies.

[Diawl Mawr]

Originally Posted by spidersplus

Diawl,

When I started tying, I did not have the benefit of advice from forums such as this one.

I started by buying Indian and Chinese capes, thinking that I had found a great deal in terms of cost but really struggled to tie hackles because, as both Dibbler and Ruthvenflyfisher state, the stems are very thick and oval in shape and I quickly found that the hackles were far too big.

(EDIT - sorry Gerry - I should have said Chinese, not Indian)

I remember that after taking a deep breath and leap of faith and investing in a genetic cape, everything became so much easier!

Yes, they are expensive but are a really good investment - they will last you many years and your tying will come on in leaps and bounds.

So many people who start tying give up very quickly due to struggling with inferior materials and tools - cheap soft metal vices that won't hold hooks, thick thread that frays far too easily, lumpy dubbing that just will not give a neat body and horrible capes that twist when wrapping on the hook.

So - please choose carefully - start with at least 8/0 thread rather than 6/0, buy some good quality dubbing and think on some good quality hackles.

If you email me your full name and address, I will send you some sample hackles with my compliments, so you can at least try a genetic hackle before you buy. I will also send you some Indian hackles so you can see the difference.

Kind regards

Thanks mate, I have sent you a mail

[seiont]

Originally Posted by The Dibbler

Hi Diawl,

The problem with most cheap capes is that you will not get many usable feathers from them. I would recommend metz/whiting/hoffman capes (cock capes/saddles). All the feathers are usable and you will get two to three flies from a single feather. Hen capes can be bought relatively cheap and imho there is no need to be going for the aforementioned brands unless you want to tie wets with hen capes.

Hope this helps

Dibbler

thats true, i have noticed with hen capes, when tying hackled wets you on average only get around 50 flies out of one to tie quality looking flies