Woodcock & Claret

[Gander]

Originally Posted by Puss in Boots

A local claret bodied favourite, is the 'Welsh Partridge'; not mentioned by Moc...
Neither can I find an official dressing, imagine a brown Partridge dabblerized Mallard & Claret, but without the wing.


PiB

The only "Welsh Partridge" I know of is a dry fly. Credited to Courtney Williams in Taff Price's "Fly Patterns", the tying is given as:-

Thread - Black
Tail - Two strands of partridge tail.
Body - Claret seals fur
Rib - Fine oval gold.
Hackle - Stiff claret cock with brown partridge in front.
Wing - None.

I suppose it would be easy enough to convert it to a wet, but I think putting a woodcock wing on it takes it somewhere else.

Edit - Just found reference to the WP in Tom Stewart's "Two hundred popular flies". Same tying and history given, but does also mention it can be pulled sub-surface.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by grey duster

I notice on the pictures of Bob Wyatt's flies on the recent post on the step by step on the deer hair emerger by Hans that there is a "Woodcock and Claret" - does anyone use this pattern and if so when and under what circs? Exactly what plumage from the woodcock is used?
Thanks
GD

This may be of interest to you.

Woodcock and Hare's Ear/ Partridge and Hare's Ear Spider

Originally Posted by Highlander

On an aside Puss in Boots said

This is getting complex....


I have ample supplies of home shot grouse, mallard, and woodcock; so feather supply is not an issue for me.
However, I suggest, it was an issue to some of the developers and inventors of these patterns.
It's also how some of the dressings, and variants, spread.......ie. As keepers etc. moved about the country; they utilized Grouse, Pheasant, or Woodcock, whatever was locally available; 'dark Turkey' has even been mentioned.



Gander - a great 'spider' link. However reference to Courtney Williams' original 'Welsh Partridge was, after all, available in Moc's book. It was in the 'Dry Fly' Chapter; where he suggests a grey partridge hackle for improved visibility.
The 'killer' wet fly has 3 brown partridge hackles; supported by a black, or claret, hackle.


PiB

[Hans Weilenmann]

PiB,

Here is a Welsh Partridge I recently added to Flytier's Page


Welsh Partridge, tied by Paul Ainsworth

Cheers,
Hans W

[grey duster]

Originally Posted by Puss in Boots

Gander - a great 'spider' link.


PiB

Indeed it is - at what time of year would you use either ? I am tempted to think of them as variants on the March Brown spider with which I have had some success this year ??
GD

[grey duster]

Originally Posted by Hans Weilenmann

PiB,

Here is a Welsh Partridge I recently added to Flytier's Page


Cheers,
Hans W

Thanks - will have a look there.
GD

[Albannach cuileag]

J Herbert in his 1932 Fly Dressings book gives the following description of the tying of the Woodcock and Claret -

Tying No. 499

Body - Claret wool or Seal's fur ribbed with a fine silver wire
Wings - from the wing feather of a woodcock
Hackle - a dyed Claret Cock feather
Tail - a few strands of Golden Pheasant Tippet

There is also a slight indication in the description of the spider version using a Woodcock wing feather as a hackle and omitting the winging.

As Highlander stated the Woodcock gives a more subtle look to the pattern but as with all flies there will be local variants and renames with a change of one or more of the tying materials to give a claim of originality to the new dressing.

[grey duster]

Thanks
I think I'll have a go at the spider version and let you know how it works!