The fly name debate

[dabhoy]

There have been a few points raised regarding the naming of flies and thought I would start a thread about it.
The way I see it most flies end up being variants of previous flies.
So how do we decide when a fly should have a name ?
How did all the other classics get names ?
I know Stan and Alex have strong opinions on the names of flies and wonder what others think.
Not picking on you Stan but its one that stands out but the Doobry for instance is there another fly that is much the same?
Im sure I could think of plenty more but this should get the ball rolling

[fortbhoy]

Originally Posted by dabhoy

There have been a few points raised regarding the naming of flies and thought I would start a thread about it.
The way I see it most flies end up being variants of previous flies.
So how do we decide when a fly should have a name ?
How did all the other classics get names ?
I know Stan and Alex have strong opinions on the names of flies and wonder what others think.
Not picking on you Stan but its one that stands out but the Doobry for instance is there another fly that is much the same?
Im sure I could think of plenty more but this should get the ball rolling

i think the guys who have tyed classic flies should be proud that people copy there flies and give them variant names. it's shows they have tyed something that will stand the test of time and as long as the person who has tyed the variant doesn't claim it as there own.
hopefully i can invent a fly worth copying oneday

[oakham orange]

To be honest in Ireland, its actually not too bad, with extra names. Its still mostly dabbler this and bumble that. I find it worse when it comes to rainbow patterns. Its more getting the right shade of dabbler or bumble.

One recent example of a new name was Paul Cantillons georgous george. A superb fly, but just a combination of Melvin Octopus and golden bumble variant type of thing, in my opinion, but the name kind of stuck in anglers mouths, now every irish lough angler has one in their box.

Its hard to give a fly a name that will stick. Apart from the fly mentioned above, not since the dabbler have we had such a name. Even the deadly irish flies of recent years such as the Lilo Lil and the Terminator, have failed to catch on regarding names. But maybe because they have been kept so hush hush for the last 10 years. Which suits some anglers just fine.

[dabhoy]

Have to agree with you there Greg regarding the rainbow flies the other ones that come to mind are a lot of the lures.

[black knight]

As long as the fly is significantly different to an original established fly I think the tier is entitled to call it what he wants.

[The Blue Licer]

Whilst I would not disagree with anything that has been said, I would like to add something to the mix which was veiwed as pretty much the 'norm' many years ago.
In the dark ages, when I were a lad, around the time that Parton, Jardine, Church and Leadbetter and others were cutting their teeth, there used to ba another fairly well known angler, Dick Walker.
If I remember correctly, he went with the standard 'give it a name when it has caught you 50 fish'.
Seemed to work quite well for us and I still try to adhere to that even now, The Blue Licer being one, the Salmon Anglers among you may know it better as The Pert Shrimp.

[maharg]

I am a great believer to sticking to the original dressing where possible. Sometimes materials are no longer available and so subs must be used though.
If we have a base line to work with then we all know where we are.
I also believe a pattern is a new pattern with two or more changes, it is more than a variant then.
Some of the names bamboozle me though. For example we all pretty much know what a standard butcher is.
Then along comes a "teal winged Butcher" sorry that is all wrong!
Generally a series of flies are named for their wing material,
Grouse and Green,
Woodcock and hares ear,
Blae and Black.
The body is secondary and provides the variation, the wing is the constant.
So a teal winged butcher is a teal and silver variant, not now, not ever a teal winged butcher.

[MARAZION MIDGE]

I'm all for development and innovation in flies and the materials we use, but there is a lot of unnecessary Willy nilly naming of flies on here, where just say Cormorant, Dabbler, or Bibio variant would be better suited.

What was worse in my opinion and its just that an opinion! was when people were posting lots of cormorants, and for the life of me they were not! and even adding variant to the fly would of pushed things.

Still I would rather see flies posted under any name than none posted at all, we can make our own mind up to what it is.
Mike

[steve collyer]

Half of these flies are variants of the Soldier Palmer.

[mattybhoy]

i allways took it that if you changed 1 thing on a fly , it became a variant .
changing 2 or more makes it a new fly in my eyes.

but we all love to experiment .......