Starling wing quills and hackles

[flytier07]

I try to avoid using starling wing quills and hackles as I find they are very fiddly to use and not strong like mallard quills. Also find starling hackles extremely delicate and break a lot when using. Have any other tiers found alternatives for these materials and if so what? Thank You. Byron T

[wobbly face]

Starling is the substute for a lot of other birds, snipe for example and when died for blackbird both male and female.

[flytier07]

I know what they're substitutes for Mike. Just wanted to know if any forumites use alternatives to starling. Thank You

[arkle]

The choice of hackle pliers can make quite a difference with soft quilled hackles. Are you tying them in tip 1st by the way ?

[A. Fluker]

Originally Posted by flytier07

I know what they're substitutes for Mike. Just wanted to know if any forumites use alternatives to starling. Thank You

It is a devil to work with but without equal.

Best advice is persevere or golf.

[flytier07]

Use small rubber-tipped hackle pliers for grip and always tie in by the tip. Also find blue jay hackles to be just as delicate.

[mancfly]

I can't think of any substitute for starling hackles that would match colour and size, and would be stronger. I can only suggest using midge size hackle pliers as they are very light, just wind very carefully.
Another sub for wing quills is Jay primaries, a happy medium between mallard and starling.

[arkle]

If the h/p's you're using are the traditional 1 piece wire type, that could be an where another type might work better. For soft stemmed feathers like starling, I use a swivel type but with a small shock-absorbing spring between the jaws & the handle. These impart very little weight to the hackle tip.

If you can;t find any of the above, try winding the fibres with a split thread technique. The hackle will then have far less bulk & much greater strength.

[flytier07]

Thanks, Guys. Mancfly by Blue Jay primaries do you mean the quills just below the blues? I have Blue Jay wings and think these quills must be the ones you refer to.

[mancfly]

Originally Posted by flytier07

Thanks, Guys. Mancfly by Blue Jay primaries do you mean the quills just below the blues? I have Blue Jay wings and think these quills must be the ones you refer to.

Yes, the blues are the feathers that cover the base of the primaries, which are the lowest feathers on the wing. The grey ones, with one edge long and the other edge very short.