beginner hackle confusion

[matt_b]

Hi folks,

I've just started tying, and am enjoying it immensely - incredibly rewarding.

However, the terminology and the variety of materials is really confusing me.

I am trying to tie some standard dries - in particualr para Adams and olive para duns. Based on the excellent SBSs on here, I understand what needs to be done - thank you. I have even managed to tie a few passable flies - with the exception of the hackles, which are dreadful.

The problem is that I don't seem to have the right feathers to do dry fly hackles (just packs of veniards cock pheasant hackle feathers, which make very good wet fly spider hackles, but don't seem to have the stiffness needed for dries). Could someone recommend a good, general puprose dry fly hackle. Bearing in mind I very confused by what all the different names mean ('honey dun', 'grzzle', 'badger' etc). And is it possible to buy them in packs, or is it necesarry to buy whole capes and select the right feather?

All help very, very gratefully received

[richardw]

Originally Posted by matt_b

Hi folks,

I've just started tying, and am enjoying it immensely - incredibly rewarding.

However, the terminology and the variety of materials is really confusing me.

I am trying to tie some standard dries - in particualr para Adams and olive para duns. Based on the excellent SBSs on here, I understand what needs to be done - thank you. I have even managed to tie a few passable flies - with the exception of the hackles, which are dreadful.

The problem is that I don't seem to have the right feathers to do dry fly hackles (just packs of veniards cock pheasant hackle feathers, which make very good wet fly spider hackles, but don't seem to have the stiffness needed for dries). Could someone recommend a good, general puprose dry fly hackle. Bearing in mind I very confused by what all the different names mean ('honey dun', 'grzzle', 'badger' etc). And is it possible to buy them in packs, or is it necesarry to buy whole capes and select the right feather?

All help very, very gratefully received

To start with obtain cock capes in:

Natural Red
Ginger
Black
White (or Cream)
Badger

Indian capes are cheap but do not have as many useful hackles on them as genetic capes. They will do to get you started. Choose small capes and look at the hackle fibre lengths by bending a hackle (still attached to the cape) and seeing how long the fibres are on the hackle. The most useful ones will have fibres 3 to 5 mm long. These are what is needed for most dry flies.

If you are on a strict budget, get the natural red and/or the ginger cape.

Your problems will disappear on the first fly you tie with a proper cock hackle.

(Honey Dun etc. can come later)

richard

[blithfield2]

Matt,

Check this link, it may give you a better idea of the terms used and colour availability -www.jimsflyco.com/Whiting-hackle-color-wall.asp

In relation to the quality of capes and saddles, you have a choice between Chinese or Indian capes and genetic capes/saddles. The difference being that the genetic feathers come from birds that have been specifically bred to produce high quality feathers. Quality in terms of stiffness and density of barbs, but this comes at a cost!

You need to decide on the sizes of flies, that in the main, you will be tying and then go onto the websites of companies such as Lakeland, Whiting and many others to get an idea of the types of capes/saddles, that produce the feathers in quantity for the the size of fly you want. Then it will be down to you to decide on the economics. I have also found that the majority of these companies are more than willing to give telephone advice, if further assistance is required.

I hope this assists

[horses50]

Ah the black art of fly tying,no not really you can buy what they call whiting 100s which means that you should get 100 flies out of one pack but in my opinion that can be a costly way of doing it.You can get some good indian cock capes which are cheap enough but i would suggest you contact some of the guys on the forum that sell them and explain to them that you are just starting out and they will sort you out some good capes to get you going.If you start to get really serious about tying i would suggest you then invest in some genetic capes and saddles my own preference is whiting [if you can get them]i dont do a lot of tying mainly for myself so i tend to buy half capes got my last lot from Phil at fly tying boutique.Hope this helps

[arkle]

I was helping/hindering two companies at the bffi last weekend. One of them has got the finest Indian cock capes I've ever seen in 43+ years of tying. He doesn't have a website at present though, but if anyone's interested I can forward some pics via email as I have a selection of them. P.M. me f.f.i.

[matt_b]

Thanks for the responses - that's just what I was looking for.

[christy27]

I had all the same problems when I first started. I to like tying para style flies. Just like you, I found it hard going because I did not have the right materials. Then I discovered Whiting Farms "100 plus" saddle hackles. Suddenly it all became easier, a different world. Those are exactly what you need. Not expensive, for a tenner you get loads and they last for ages. For impartial sound advice ring Phil Holding at the flytyingboutique on 01535 630113 and have a chat.

The terminology you mention grizzle, honey dun, badger etc are only names for the different colours available, grizzle is barred, two tone. Have a look on flytyingboutique site at the hackles there and you will see photos of the diff colours. If you want a book that explains all and everything fly tying with fantastic photography and simple explanations check out Charlie Cravens- Basic Fly Tying. Amazon have it. What a book-all the questions are answered. Hth.

Chris.

[matt_b]

Thanks Chris.

Am I right in thinking that hackle is a bit hard to get hold of anyway at the moment? Why is this? Seems like a peculiar thing to go through surges in demand...

[Chelsea123]

Originally Posted by matt_b

Am I right in thinking that hackle is a bit hard to get hold of anyway at the moment? Why is this? Seems like a peculiar thing to go through surges in demand...

You are and here's the answer why

FT.com / Style - Hooked on feathers

Neil

[mot]

Matt, the main issue with availability at the moment is due to the current fashion trend for feather hair extensions, seems to affect mainly genetic saddles.

I'd recommend getting some good quality indian capes to get you started, and you should be able to get hold of these quite easily.

Chris at Lathkill can supply good quality capes. Tell him what size flies you intend to tye and he will select a cape with good size hackles. Incidentally fly tying boutique is excellent and I use them for other stuff, but they don't stock Indian capes, actually it was Phil at FTB who recommended lathkill to me in the first place.

Cheers
Mot