problems with hackles

[rod123]

hi i have recently started fly tying and am having problems with hackles on certain flies like the black gnat and a couple others i have tried the hackles seem to be far too bushy is it necessary to trim the hackle down sometimes or is that a no no and can anyone recommend a good pair of hackle pliers, the ones i'm using are stonefly but even though i take my time making sure th pliers grip the hackle well they always seem to let go of it before i've finished ,is this a case of a workman blameing his tools or do i need a better pair of hackle pliers thanks Rod

[wingman]

Originally Posted by rod123

hi i have recently started fly tying and am having problems with hackles on certain flies like the black gnat and a couple others i have tried the hackles seem to be far too bushy is it necessary to trim the hackle down sometimes or is that a no no and can anyone recommend a good pair of hackle pliers, the ones i'm using are stonefly but even though i take my time making sure th pliers grip the hackle well they always seem to let go of it before i've finished ,is this a case of a workman blameing his tools or do i need a better pair of hackle pliers thanks Rod

Did you say STONEFLY oh no the dreaded stonefly tools aaaaaarrrggghhh!

[wingman]

Sorry about that I'm alright now. No I wouldn't trim the hackles unless a pattern really called for it, rather select a hackle with regard to hook gape size, if you put the feather longways along the shank then gauge the length of the hackle fibres, should be about one and a half times hook gape and no more although dryflies you'd be better off even shorter for them to sit on the water better, likewise parachute flies also a smaller hackle fibre length.
But get yourself some decent hackle pliers that give a good grip, they shouldn't slip the feather like you say they are doing.

[rod123]

Hi thanks for the help could you suggest a decent pair of hackle pliers,the hackles i am using are the packs of turrell hackle feathers but they all seem bushy like that are they normaly alright. Rod

[wingman]

My hackle pliers are Turrel, they were fairly cheap to buy and hold the hackle really well. what sort of hackles are they that your'e useing? if theyr'e just normal cock hackles they shouldn't be that bushy, they should be nicely tapered. you might be better off getting some saddle hackles as they're more uniform throughtout theyr'e length and easy to use.

[rod123]

Hi yes they are just normal turrel cocks hackles perhaps it's just me i hav'nt done much tying at all maybe with a bit of practise i'll get there thanks for the advice off now to google turrel hackle pliers thanks Rod

[wingman]

Good lad keep practicing you'll get there in the end.

[shpeil]

When you say the hackles are too bushy, do you mean that the fibres coming off the stem are too long when they are wound on? Or that the fibres are too thick i.e. the right length but too many fibres altogether?

For the first, the problem is the size of the hackle like Wingman says. I don't know Turrell packet hackles, but I have experience of Veniard "short" hackles - invariably waaaaay too long in the fibre for trout flies, unless you strike it lucky. I never did strike it lucky and ended up starting a collection of capes. There are plenty of threads on here about capes v saddles, but basically, a cape gives you feathers that will tie on lots of different hook sizes. Saddles are cheaper and give you feathers which will be the right size for 2 or 3 different hook sizes.

If the problem is that there are too many fibres once you tie the hackle on, then the answer is simply to make less turns of hackle. You don't have to use the whole feather on each fly.

Cheers,

Neil

[cravencast]

I still use the old-fashioned 'sprung loop' style of pliers - I can get my big fingers in the sprung loop, and I find a little piece of silicone tubing (or even better, rubber valve tubing - ha ha showing my age again) slipped over the end of one arm only, helps hold the hackle without breaking it. Incidentally, I agree with the post that says get a saddle or even better half a neck genetic hackle - hundreds of hackles on that and each ties about a dozen flies. I'm sitting here with the kit set up, tying pearly Wickhams, and I've a dozen on the bench and only used one hackle off my current cape. Granted its expensive but I reckon I'll have enough left when I pop my clogs to make it worth leaving in my will!

[rod123]

Hi thanks for the advice, i meant the fibres look to long to me, so when i was trying to tie a black gnat it ends up looking huge like half the size of a golf ball, thanks Rod