Hook sizes ???

[mebu]

Can anyone clarify hook sizes please?

Purchased some size 12 Partridge Czech nymph hooks....they are bl**dy massive, see photo for comparison against other (normal?) size 12s (actually Kamasan B110 and 170)

The length ain't the same, nor gape, nor......

Can anyone explain "size 12" please??
Many Thanks Peter

[ruby pennel595664]

Sizes of hooks do seem to vary slightly among different manufacturers but the example in the photo does seem extreme. Perhaps you have been sent the wrong size in error, it looks more like a size 8 to me.

[3lbgrayling]

You should have a sz12 Klinkhammer hook in there.It would be nearly 1/3 bigger than the Czech nymph hook.

[cax]

hook sizes vary greatly between different manufacturers, that bottom hook is far too big to be a 12.

[Chris Reeves]

There have been several standard International hook scales, The one we used until recently to use was known as the Redditch "New" scale as that was where most hooks were made. It seems to have fallen into misuse as more and more hooks are made in countries in the far east where cost is more important than tradition. It is now more about knowing your brand sizes than being able to measure up a hook against a stated size.

Partridge Klinkhamer hooks and the Czech Nymph hooks both come out about 2 sizes larger than you expect. This should only be a problem the first time you buy and a decent retailer will check that you know this (hint for all those who dont!)
I'd love to see a return to a manufacturing standard but fear there is little chance of that happening.

Here are a few of the other scales showing different sizes that have been used by various manufacturers.

Hook scales Sizes (small to large)

Carlisle 12 or small midge,11 or middle midge,10 or large midge,9 or small fly,8 or middle fly,7 or large fly,6 or small cod-bait,5 or middle cod-bait,4 or large cod-bait,3 or small worm,2 or middle worm,1 or large worm, small grilse, middle grilse, large grilse, small salmon, middle salmon, large salmon

Redditch "new" 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 2/0, 3/0, 4/0, 5/0, 6/0, 7/0, 8/0, 9/0, 10/0 (Good illustration p 464 of Kelson)

Redditch "old" 13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

Redditch (1830) 12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,00

Adlington† 00,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20

Kendal (1830) 000,00,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,1213,14,15

Pennell 000,00,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19

H. S. Hall series 000,00,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Sell (Trout) 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 (Grilse) 4,3,2,1 (Salmon) 6,5,4,3,2,1

Philips midge, fe, f, ff, fff, C, CC, B, BB, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4

O’Shaughnessy (Trout) 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 (Grilse) 4,3,2,1 (Salmon) 6,5,4,3,2,1

Limerick "rational" scale 000,00,0,1,2,3,4, 4½, 5, 5½, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11½, 12, 13, 13½, 14, 14½, 15, 16, 17, 18, 18½, 19, 20, 21


Dont you love the idea of both 000 and 14 1/2 sizes in the same range?

So you see, you weren't really confused but you are now!

Cheers

[A. Fluker]

Great post CR.

Thanks for sharing.

[christy27]

Agree with above, great post Chris. How confusing . I'd never have thought...

Yet on reflection when I look in my hook box to choose a hook for a tying, first I go to what the recipe says size 14 for example, then I look at perhaps 14s from 3-4 different manufacturers (supposedly all the same style) and make my final choice on which I think most fits the bill.

I thought years ago (coarse hooks) were fairly standard. But were they? Doubt it, for me they were because I always bought the same ones, if that makes sense .

Chris.

[Chris Reeves]

Coarse hooks were supposedly manufactured to the same scale but as soon as you start changing shank lengths and gape sizes you get differences that evolve over time.

I used to buy a very old black size 18 hook (Au lion d'or, sadly no longer made) that was perfect for bread punch fishing and was smaller than the size 24s Kamasan red hooks that I used for bloodworm.

And another thing, where did all the odd numbered sizes go? I used to have some size 9 strong wire hooks that fitted the international guage perfectly but now have to use 10's that are well within the limits or bend the eye on size 8's

Cheers

[christy27]

Au Lion D'or oh yes they were the ones. We simply bought whatever hook the local shop stocked back in the day (mid 70s) for general course fishing, not a clue what they were. Then someone discovered Au Lion D'or, size 10 was the normal choice (carp fishermen all now). These hooks had a beak point and were extreemly sharp. We were not used to sharp hooks!

The 'chosen one' was number 1534. Apparantly the French company Cannelle, Au Lion D'or is their trademark, were still trading in 2002 in Europe. The invasion of Japanesse hooks in the early 80s in the UK was to much and the French pulled out.

Modern Carp hooks now come in odd sizes, ESP were the first I noticed but I think the others have copped on, Gardiner for one.

Chris

[ibrown]

Hi Peter,
The best size for Partridge 15BNX Klinkhamer hooks is 20. The design will be changed next year as you have said, what you think is a 10 is more like a 2 . They are going to bend the point of the hook out and shorten the flat shank bit by the eye as its to long.

Regards
Ian