Little flies - help needed

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In preperation for my self imposed exile I've been trying to knock up a few roach patterns, I'm OK down to about a #16 but below that things get a bit lumpy, here's a few from tonight (all #20's) they just don't look right to me. I know that some of the guys on here do silly small dries so any tips for going small greatfully appreciated.

Black spider effort - should have stuck with one turn of hackle.


Red tag - I think i need to trim down the bush a bit


Nymphy thing - tail a bit long but reasonably happy


Any comments greatfully appreciated, if anyone has any killer roach patterns please feel free to pass them on and If anyone can tie a decent #20 to #24 para hackled dry then I'll give you my address to send some to!!

Cheers - Steve

[emerger1981]

yep! shave the bush..
a little over dubbed on the nymph and maybe a less turn on the spider..
other than that good efforts mate.. i think danny(sweenytodd) been doing alright with the roach on P.T.N's

[arkle]

My very first fly-caught fish, (1970 ish) a roach came to a B & P spider. It must have weighed all of 3 ozs, but it took a size 10.

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I know what you're saying Arkle, I've caught a few roach (by accident) on normal trout patterns so maybe I'm getting a little focused on the small end of the scale.

I've tied up a few spider type patterns, nymphs and buzzers in the #14 to #16 size range which should catch ok, I caught quite a few roach and rudd (and a little tench which came as a shock) yesterday on a #16 red holo diawl bach whilst my daughter was catching a few perch (using maggots) I did cheat by loose feeding a few maggots and casting the fly into the middle though!