I hope I'm not being numbered among the 'stoners' - that was certainly not my intention. A gentle prod with the toe of my Hush Puppy, perhaps, but not kicking a man when he's down.

I'm all too well aware of the problems Carl had with supplies from Vosseler; the delay between my ordering and delivery was a matter of some months. This was not his fault, and I would not for one minute blame him for it. If Vosseler is criticising Carl's sales figures without acknowledging their own part in failing to deliver the goods, that stinks.

Carl always managed to put across (to me) a passion for quality tackle, and I never felt he was the type to sell any old stuff just to turn a penny. And while I might not rush to buy a rod from him - only because I think he and I may perhaps look for slightly different attributes in a rod, and what suits him might well not suit me - I feel that the quality of a reel is much less subjective and more absolute. As such I was inclined to believe his word when he said the reels were good. Over and above that, when I first enquired about them he sent me several reels to handle on approval - none of which I actually ended up buying - without even asking me to cover the postage.

As well as the quality of the reels themselves, it was that sort quality of service and commitment to his customers was instrumental in persuading me to buy what was by far the most expensive reel I have ever bought. If, as his posting above suggests, he is no longer interested in me or any problem I may encounter with my reel in the future, I feel I have a legitimate reason to draw attention to that, particularly in the light of his claim to look after his customers.

Hi Charlie,
I'm done posting in the forum but I will address your concerns about warranties.

I never had warranty support from Vosseler. If anything needed to be fixed I canibalised a reel from the shelf that I had personally bought. And I fixed any problem sent to me, regardless of problem. I even replaced several handles that had been broken by owners simply dropping their reels. I replaced half a dozen bearings and even bent spools. I unsiezed several drag systems and answered several late night drunken phone calls from owners too drunk to figure out how to change the drag from left to right hand drive and talked them through it. I even replaced a screw lost from someone trying to change their reel over whilst one whiskey past the ability to do so.

I never once charged for postage.

I sent out reels and spools to those who were no where near a dealer, on free approval and at great risk.

I gave countless hours of advice on on the phone on backing capacities and types, reel suitability and even casting and fishing advise for their destinations.

Vosseler always promised a "Spares Kit" that, in three years, never came.

Regardless of whether I want to help my existing customers or not, Once I've sold my stock, I'll not have reels to canibalise and hence no service.

I even placated a recent reel winner from Sexyloops who Vosseler steadfastly ignored when he inquired about the length of time it took to get his prize.

I was given absolutely no notice that we were being dropped as agents. Vosseler demoted us to "dealer status" but promised to supply us with our outstanding orders. Two days later we were advised that we were no longer allowed to use a copy of the Vosseler site due to Copyright infrigement. (deliberately inflamatory and designed to make us "Snap". We didn't.

And because we didn't, the next day we received an Email saying all orders were cancelled and we were now out. (we weren't surprised, Ralf Vosseler had lied to me many times in the past and we had two longstanding Sweepstakes in the office. The First was how late each order was going to be and the second was which machine he would blame for it "this" time). We knew he had no intetion of supplying our outstanding orders or selling to us as a "dealer".

In all Honesty, I really don't mind losing the account. It was NOTHING but trouble. His manufacturing processes and stocking policies are fundamentally flawed, he never held stock, and was always waiting for "something". We were expected to hold stock so he didn't have to. We had to pay for and hold his buffer. We were expected to pay in advance, before delivery (so he could screw us at any time) and yet expected to give our customers up to a a month to pay so we were effectively funding his growth. And virtually *every* order was late! Sometimes 7 months late!


It's HOW we lost the account that is irritating. He still owes us £30,980 that we spent on his behalf on growing his business. I gave him the offer of paying us this and in return we'd sell the reels we have at full RRP. He not only ignored this offer but Emailed all of my customers stating I was trying to Blackmail him, which My customers kindly passed on to me. I even Emailed his other distributors to apologise for being forced into dumping our reels.

He no doubt has someone else in the wings. We've done the hard work and now they can "reap" the rewards. Unfortunately, they may well be on a road to nowhere due to us having £75K to dump. Would you take on an account?

We were also working with several well known companies in the UK supplying a range of reels in their name. In taking away our distribution he has also screwed those companies too.

I have documentary proof of all of the above which might yet end up on the web sites we have that are Vosseler based.

So there you are, the full story. Makes interesting reading doesn't it.

I wonder who might take on the account?

I won't be posting here again (on any subject) and if anyone wants me I'm on PM only.

Carl

Are you reading the same thread as the rest of us? who's stoning Berlin

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Just In Time delivery sounds a little 'manana' to say the least in this place!

I completely agree, Scotfly.

And Nigel if you're referring to my comments I have to say I think you're misrepresenting or misinterpreting me.

As has now been proved, if there's any "stoning" going on here, it's of Vosseler, would you not agree? Whether or not they deserve, I don't really know. As I expected would happen, we really will only get one side of the story.

Either way, I don't think this community should be dragged into a personal business dispute. And it shouldn't be a soapbox for parties in the dispute to vent their dirty laundry, either. This forum is about angling and I saw nothing in the original post (or now) that has anything to do with fishing directly.

Grouse

Flame Wars IMHO - restrict abuse to "to PMS /Email !!

http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showthrea...ighlight=flame

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bequest -please scatter my ashes in river moy to rest in the cathederal beat

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I did read in the last few months in one of the fishing magazines that Bruce and Walker were to be selling Vosseler reels with the B & W logo on them?

Certainly Barrio Fishing Tackle in Aberdeen also have a bespoken Vosseler listed on their website.

http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/barrio-trout-reel.html

But as someone at one time in the firearms trade I would urge that it be considered withdrawing the trade price list link that has been posted here.

The fact that it can be viewed isn't doing anyone any favours! Not the bloke down the road who told "his missus" that his brand new Vosseler reel only cost £10.00, nor those who purchased them at "retail", those who still have them in stock, nor IMHO Carl or "Berlin" himself.

I would also agree, having been in the firearms trade, that publishing a manufacturer's trade price list, whatever the reason is unlikely to lead to other manufacturers looking favourably on trading with the publisher.

It also, IMHO, is not courteous to those UK Dealers who will have stocks of Vosseler products on hand.

Perhaps the "link" should be withdrawn? Certainly the publisher of this forum might be wise to seek advice.

Lastly having been trained "in the law" it is worth remembering in contract law under the doctrine of "privity of contract" that if you purchase an item from "X" your contract is with "X" the vendor and NOT with the maker "Y".

For the same reason that if you buy a Ford, or other, motor car you contract for warranty matters is with the Main Dealer or "X" the vendor and NOT the Ford Motor Company being "Y" the maker.

(Although, of course, under tort or injury law, if the car is dangerous and causes you harm then, yes, you can sue the Ford Motor Company).

I only met Carl or "Berlin" once, at Leicestershire Fly Fishing Show but he seemed a decent enough guy on first impressions. It is unfortunate when a trading relationship ends less than amicably. We can all only wish him a better ending than we have read of here.