Gents,

I've been thinking about getting a DSLR for a while and an opportunity has come up to get a used one at a good price. I would like to use the camera for fly photos but also for general snapping of the familly when out and about.

I've been doing some research but would appreciate some unbiased opinions.

I got talking to a guy around the coffee machine who is a bit of a photography nut and has a couple of Canon bodies 'spare' he has both the 400D and a 1000D each with the kit lens (18-55mm) that he has offered to me for a decent price.

He also has a couple of prime lenses that seem reasonably priced, they are both Canon, the 50mm f1.8 and 85mm f1.8.

I have mentioned the prime lenses because my thinking is that with a set of extensions tubes and the 50mm it would be an OK macro setup for not a lot of money. The 85mm is a bit too expensive for this, and is about half way to a proper macro lens, so I probably won't get that.

The major drawback of the the 400D is the lack of liveview, I think that would be useful for macro work. However, I assume that I could use it tethered so 'liveview' through a PC? The 1000D is a few euros more but not a deal breaker.

Do you think I would need to add another longer lens for general use? I'm not into wildlife photography, if I want a picture of an Osprey then google images will find one!

Any comments on the above would be greatfully appreciated.

Cheers - Steve

i have a nikon d90,and i never use liveview,just use the back screen for menu and settings,

Hi Steve,

I'm in the Nikon camp so I can't really give accurate advice on the kit, but I'm sure Col or Rob will be along soon to help, as they are both Canon (spits ) users. What I will say is Live View isn't important at all. It's only displaying what you can see through the view finder anyway. As for tethered shooting, well again I think I'm right in saying if the camera doesn't support Live View it won't via tethered shooting either. What tethered shooting does allow you to do is adjust all of the camera settings via the PC/Laptop as long as you're using a suitable program; for me that would be Nikon Camera Control Pro. Once you take the shot it is saved and displayed on your PC instead of being saved to the camera, so you can view the shot and make any adjustments, all of the camera's functions are controlled from the PC, so while it may 'look' good, it does nothing that can't be done straight from the camera.. Again though tethered shooting isn't really practical for GOOD fly shots as the best results are achieved by shooting outside in natural light.

Anyone who's new to DSLR's will think "View finder....WTF?", but is soon becomes second nature.

As said, I can only speak for my Nikon gear, but neither my old D70 or my D200 support live view, do I miss it? Nope, do I need it? Nope. It's more of a gimmick, though I'm sure it's handy for shooting video, but hey that's not why you're thinking about getting a DSLR is it?

My very personal view is that to start off with a good all round lens is the best way. Once you have learned how to use it fully then you can decide if you want to go down a more specialist route. I have the Nikon 18-200 and most of the decent photos I have taken have been taken with this lens - because it is the one that I always have with me.

Both the Canon and Nikon 18-200 focus very close so Macro photography at the level you are talking about is quite easy.

The 400D is an obsolete camera (there's a 6000D now which means there also HAS been a 450D, 500D and 550D in that line of cameras), so I'd go for a 1000D regardless of the "entry camera" title pinned to the 1000D. The camera is very cheap from new, so the price should be 150£ including kit lens at most.

Regarding extension (or macro as you call them) tubes. You most know, that you have very limited (actually close to none) depth of field with the extension tubes, so you'd only be able to "get the head on the fly" in focus, but nothing more. Extension tubes are for extreme close up photography only (like a thread on a bolt or clockwork), and is not suites to take images of flies unless we're talking size 32 and smaller.

The kit lenses are actually not as bad as many people wants them be, so for starters the 18-55 are fine. Maybe you could consider a real macro lens in a later point of time. I think Canon has a 60mm and 100mm macro, which are very good.

__________________
Thank you in advance,
Thomas Schreiber
http://mayfly.dk

Hi Steve,

Aye, it's a tricky one, no blacks and whites in this really, just shades of gray - and everyone who posts a reply is bound to give you the view from their perspective, which is obviously going to be coloured by their own choice of gear and how they use it. (Not bad, eh? ...in one sentence about photography I have managed to mention black & white, and colour! )

I used a Canon 10D from 2004 to 2007, which doesn't have live view, and a 40D from 2007 to 2010 and 7D since 2010, both of which have live view. I also bought a 400D (no live view) at my workplace just before the 450D (with live view) came out - and I have been miffed ever since, as I often use the works one for photomicroscopy and live-view is a real advantage - so much so that I tend to take my 40D in to work when I have a bit to do. Not that that will be an issue to you, but for fly work, given the choice between having live view and not having live view, I would recommend having it. I always use it when it is available. As Stupengs says, it is not essential, and the viewfinder in an SLR will give you so much better a look at your subject than an electronic viewfinder in a bridge camera or the LCD in a pointy-shooty compact will.

I did a wee piece recently - dSLR on a budget - on budget SLR set-ups for fly shots. I used my old 10D and I have to say that I immediately missed being able to focus with live view. I got by without it, but...

I am not certain about the tethered shooting... I suspect you might need the live-view option to enable the tethered shooting - and if you have the former, you don't need the latter. I set it up at work for my 40D so I suspect that it wasn't an option for the 400D - but don't take that as gospel.

The 1000D is an entry level camera, and is just being updated by the 1100D. The best thing to do is go on the review sites like DP Reviews and have a look at the bangs your are getting for your bucks with all the cameras. There are 3 main lineages in Canon dSLRs, which in chronological order go...

1 = 1000D and currently 1100D
2 = 300D, 350D, 400D, 450D, 500D, 550D, and currently 600D
3 = 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D and currently 60D

1 is the entry level, though 2 used to be before the 1000D came along. 3 is the enthusiast, or 'prosumer' level. Where you choose to enter depends on the age and spec you decide to balance against how much you are prepared to pay. Other things to bear in mind include build quality and size. The 1000D and 400D are small bodies on plastic chasis. The 40D is built like a brick shit-house and will fill your hand like a good camera should (sorry, bit of personal bias creeping in there!)

As for macro on the cheap using extension tubes... er, see the thread linked above. You do get a decent depth of field with extension tubes when you stop down - think you'll see that in my shots.

I have the wee 50mm f1.8 lens and it is amazing value for its price and works well for fly shots with an extension tube. This image was taken with the 50mm f1.8 and a 25 mm extension tube:



For general use, you probably need to decide whether to cover the full range with one lens or 2 and how long (in focal length) you want to go. Something like a 18-200mm will probably give you all you need to start with, and as you move forward you will get a feel for where you want to go and that will dictate what gear you need to add. If you wanted to cover it with 2, a good pairing would be a 17-55mm and the 55-250mm IS.

Hope that helps,

Col

PS: Other brands of dSLR are available (I should be on a commission from Canon )

__________________
My hovercraft is full of eels

Of course. I wrote something incorrect. I was thinking of reverse rings but writing about extension tubes. Sorry

__________________
Thank you in advance,
Thomas Schreiber
http://mayfly.dk

Thanks for the replies gents, I’m probably more confused now than I was before! To be honest I wasn't really expecting a unanimous 'buy the X' verdict.
Liveview seems to be a bit of a marmite feature – I’ve only ever used compacts where it is pretty much essential so assumed that it was desirable. I can imagine the ability to ‘zoom’ in to get focus would be useful in macro. From what I can gather the 1000D is basically a re-packaged 400D so the internals (sensor etc) are identical. I’m going to get my hands on them both next week to see which sits best.
Endrick, the 18-200mm lens would seem to be a catch all solution to general out and about shots, but they are expensive, a new one is pretty much my entire budget at the moment!
Col, it was your piece about macro on a budget that made me think about using the extension tubes and the prime lens would in theory lead to better results than the kit lens. I’ve been on DPreview a lot recently so have some ideas about the pros and cons of each body. Thanks again for the detailed reply, it’s greatly appreciated.
Looking around there are some good deals on the Canons at the moment with the introduction of the 1100D and 600D the superseded models are reduced. So I’m even considering getting a new 550D now instead!
Its worst than choosing a new rod this!!!