Hi guys

Here we go with post number one......the first of three law changes affecting fisheries that will ALL be law by 1st October 2010

What’s the beef: A 12 week consultation period is already under way on this one and will be enforced before the start of what would be the closed season 2010.

I’ll leave it at that for the time being to see if everyone is awake and can see the potential ‘issues’ that may affect this law change.

A good debate to start with as it should encompass a good majority of the community and the 'need' for change is obvious

Comments please

__________________
Two things to have in life - A good bed and a good pair of boots -and if you aren't in one you should be in t'other

So what about waters that are stocked with brown trout but also have a tiny stock of indigenous fish? Eyebrook for one. I have (twice) caught browns as small as six inches in the main reservoir and used to catch loads from the brook that feeds it.

Bad idea.

Nice comment ....you've done this before

Bear in mind that the feeder streams where the 'wildies' breed and need protecting will still have a closed season.....but a very valid 'issue'

__________________
Two things to have in life - A good bed and a good pair of boots -and if you aren't in one you should be in t'other

IMHO It would be better all round to keep a brown tout closed season for all ,for several reasons including the one above.

Others are the brownies get a rest and should gain a little more weight and become more accustomed to the water if left to over winter in peace.

Another is it gives us a break in where we can re-stock gear and re-tie all flies lost and in between have the odd day out fishing for rainbows.

I don't see this as being in anglers interests (generally) but I do see it as being in the commercial interests of stocked stillwaters. The two are not the same!

Let's consider some of the arguments for the close season in the wider environment and relate this back to the "so called" discrete stocked stillwaters the proposal references...

1. There is a real need to protect species when vulnerable - which is admittedly referenced in the proposal. The argument that these species do not need protection in stocked stillwaters is flawed. Principally because the majority of such waters are not offline but are part of the wider water environment. There are very few such waters that are entirely sequestered from the outside world and as for the suggestion that the brown trout don't spawn in these waters - why are fry imitations so successful late season if there aren't any fry? Every fisherman knows this tactic works and is therefore aware of the dishonesty of that particular statement come on pull the other one. If fry don't survive it's probably down to the limited shelter habitats in over-groomed weedless waters where they can shelter from the aggressive stocked Rainbows...
2. There has been a pattern to closed seasons for particular species for years and this is part of the charm of fishing. It forces a change in tactics for particular species and recently has lead to a change in perceptions about "pest" species. Grayling once considered a nusiance competitor to trout and salmon are now stalked as a valued sporting fish, coarse fish on the fly are a "new" and exciting challenge. Closed seasons encourage variety and a broader perspective. Winter wet fly targeting of stocked Rainbows is a particular skill and whilst some waters should remain trout only (particularly in areas of Scotland where coarse fish are not native) there are other options in many areas and for many fisheries.
3. Clarity of approach and inclusivity of these waters is important. Many fly anglers are introduced to the sport through the excellent facilities and resource of our commercial stillwaters. A potential drawback relates to the "put and take" nature of these fisheries where it can seem that stock can be taken without consequence.
   - this attitude shouldn't be carried over to wild fishing and the mere inclusion of the closed season on these waters helps anglers to learn that there are rules and impacts to their new sport. It's a valuable lesson and it won't be reinforced by hammering and re-stocking brown trout all year.
   - in any case the stock in these waters cannot be taken "without consequence" feeding up new stock has a significant financial and environmental cost for example marine or other resources taken with feed pellet manufacture (something we are all too happy to raise when we find our interests in conflict with salmon farming) naturalised returned stock has little impact being part of the local ecosystem. Rather than give up on sustaining our Brown Trout populations and fishing them to death when vulnerable (which will certainly ensure that stocked brown trout don't spawn) surely we should keep our own house in order in this respect and attempt to preserve whatever stocks we can? We can take Brown Trout 7mths of the year (and many anglers catch and release Brownies whenever possible as native fish. Is it so awful to be forced to return fish caught accidentally out of season on these stillwaters?
4. The current zeitgeist is to return fish and get the most sport from naturalised healthy stock, the majority of anglers support this. Why should we cater to the lowest possible denominator with catch and kill on some waters out of season. It's a mistake and one that anti-angling interests could capitalise upon.

As a flyfisher in Northern Scotland without Grayling or coarse species I "suffer" more than my southern peers during the close season. Despite this I'm happy with the restrictions and return any Brownies when targeting Rainbows. What's the problem?

Can anyone point me to the current 12 week consultation, can we make submissions?

The same water you propose to fish for rainbows is usually stocked (more increasedly) with triploid Brown Trout.....why would these fish be any different to the stocked triploid Rainbow Trout?....Why should they not be treat the same as Rainbows?.....Which stillwaters do Brown Trout gain weight(overwinter) in?
The purpose of the closed season is for protection whilst breeding.....and as stated in my previous post....any fertile fish will breed in the feeders and thus will be protected by closed season for rivers which will remain unaltered.

I will add here that provision will be made for 'stocked' stillwater fishery owners to impose their own closed season if they so wish for both Brown Trout and Salmon.


For the sake of clarity....I will be playing 'devils advocate'.....and may or may not print my own views

__________________
Two things to have in life - A good bed and a good pair of boots -and if you aren't in one you should be in t'other

sounds like an opportunity for commercial fisheries to turn brown trout and salmon into the stock fish commodity that rainbow trout have become to make a little more profit over the winter months.

Sorry I forgot to add in my original post (mentioned in 2nd) that submissions are accepted from individuals within the consultation period.....should be on-line(but I know it's not)....postal accepted too

So if I can summarise(without ethical issues which we can return to as part of the overall debate) you have hit a real 'issue' about stillwaters with good stocks of wild fish.
This has a provision......and a closed season will still apply if :
Option 2
Although these are listed as options....it's not a vote

__________________
Two things to have in life - A good bed and a good pair of boots -and if you aren't in one you should be in t'other

can i ask who is proposing this?

Is this to be a UK wide proposal or just England.

Jim

__________________
The Fishermans Friend is the Flirty Fly,Fickle Food for Fleeting Fish.