Re: Recent Threads – Chinning a Cheat and Tea Time Talk

I am no computer buff, so have not been active on FFF until now. Although I do enjoy picking up tips whenever I find my way round a keyboard and get online. I am however a plain speaker and try wherever possible to speak person to person with anyone should problems arise from time to time as they do in life.

The recent threads entitled ‘Chinning a Cheat’ and ‘Teatime Talk’ have come to my attention – both threads refer to a recent local competition. However the content is full of half truths, omissions and spin – team mates coming online to protect a team mate!

I hope in the interest of fairness and right to reply that this forum allow me to share personally what happened that day. Names other than my own are omitted, and I trust that my approach in relating this sad affair is entirely reasonable. My hope is that we all learn the lessons that this unreasonable affair has for us and each party takes responsibility for their behaviour.

My name is Stephen, and I am the angler referred to as having been banned from my home fishery after events at a recent competition. Anything written here has already been said directly to the other two parties involved: a Fishery Manager (FM) and an angler (A).

Immediately after these events I apologised personally to FM and other anglers present. I am sorry for my part and regret that events turned physical.

I do believe however that ‘A’ cheated (see below) and that ‘A’ made repeated, direct and specific threats to me which, do not justify my actions but, certainly provoked me.

CHEAT
A’s team mates have already outlined the relevant rules that are read before each competition: bank comp – no wading – may step in to net fish (with one foot or two is not clear, but lets say two – no big hassle).

On this particular day, ½ hour into comp other anglers draw attention to angler A, thigh-deep in water, 5-10ft from bank, no net with him, playing a fish. FM is next to me and I say something like ‘that’s not on, can you do something?’ FM walks 15-20 yards to A, says something – I assume to get out of the water. A retreats slightly, stays in water playing fish, then immediately resumes his position again as soon as FM turns his back to walk back to me.
At this stage other anglers begin to be vocal about A’s behaviour – I was certainly not the only angler who believed the rules were broken. Next, I walk to FM with a phrase like ‘what the hell’ and ‘are you going to allow that fish to count’ (admittedly angler A was not breaking the rules by standing on a tackle box or using a mobile phone to phone other anglers on the lake, as on previous competitions) but fair’s fair and all that – this guy is no beginner and knows better than to enter the water before rod is in one hand and net is in other! I’ve fished here over 5 years and have never seen anyone behave like this: thigh deep, playing fish with both hands on rod for X amount of minutes – it’s always been 1 or two feet in water, rod in one hand, net in other, fish in, job done.

Eventually the fish is netted. At this point A’s verbals kick off: He shouts:
‘Shut the **** up or I’ll turn your face into pulp so your wife doesn’t recognize you!'
I tell A not to threaten me. FM tries to calm it all down. I walk away to collect my tackle and leave. FM follows me, persuades me to stay. (I presume to take the bad look off things). Reluctantly I stay, fish on and listen to one of A’s team mates slag the **1t out of me from the other end of the lake.



PHYSICAL

2 ½ hours later its lunch break - I’m making my way to my next peg where A is packing up. I say something like ‘can we just wise up’ and ask him not to threaten me. The verbals kick-off again, aggression from him, personal insults and threats of the same tone as 2 ½ hrs earlier. I do not respond other than to tell him to stop threatening me! He does not stop however and regretfully I react this time. 10 sec later a friend stops me. We both walk away.


………..
That’s it. All over, and the story follows its expected outcome. That evening I get anonymous phone call to home threatening to break my legs. 4 days later I have been thrown out of the membership by FM and banned from ever fishing there again – that’s his prerogative, and I am realistic enough to have expected some sort of consequence.

The cheat however walks away scott-free AGAIN!
His illegal catch was never disallowed.
Angler A, FM, Ski**y and Grey**ster, his team mates and online spin-doctors, are now free to make up the rules as they go along.



Me, my first mistake was obviously speaking up – better to ***** behind someone’s back it seems.
My second mistake was not leaving the comp when I tried to, after walking away the first time.
My third mistake……well you know!

Finally as I said earlier, I deeply regret my actions. If this story helps in any way to take cheating, personal threats and violence out of comps then this post will be worth something.

Thank you FFF for allowing my response.
Stephen

Stephen.... been there n got the 'T' Shirt mate!!... Stay happy.. theres more to life mate!

Martin Introna

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Before you cast the fly, make sure you can handle the fish! Vuoi imbrogliare? Poi Non competere! (If you want to cheat, then dont compete)

Looks like this thread will be full with replies,
i dont tolerate cheating

i will not tolerate threats or abusive behaviour,

credit to you for coming on here and speaking your side of the argument

well done on speaking up shephen, i encountered this whilst walking the banks of my local river when a coarse match was in progress. i thought it was disgraceful. i fish for relaxation and personal pleasure and have no interest to pit myself against other anglers. even less so now i have heard that this sort of behavior has raised its ugly head in fly fishing. good luck. name and shame the fishery? jon mcmillan.

Totally agree, its because of these idiots that irish trout angling is suffering, and suffer it did, all you got to do is look at the national teams performance below in kerry, as a team they were a disgrace, guys who never fished rivers on the national team , its a click stephen, your either in with the click or your not,
as for the fishery well ive heard it got a name for letting cheats fish it so your better off away from it,

Stephen,
I am really sorry that this turn of events has taken place. I have no interest in competitions or competition fishing and being a member of this forum would do very little to change my opinion, even if I was half good enough.

I have always benefited greatly from the more serious anglers at the fishery with lots of help and encouragement and the gift of flies. Advice given freely and with a glad heart. You were one of those who always had time for a chat, tip, some timely advice and my fly boxes contain many of your own patterns. If not tied by yourself then inspired by my impression of your creations. This whole business has been a sorry affair.

Among the many anglers who have been helpful to me as beginner and improving fly angler, your input has been among the greatest. Unfortunately I could also say that about the the angler you refer to as 'A'. This is a great fishery with great staff and genuinely friendly people. This has left a sour taste in many mouths.

As much as I will miss you from the banks I can not condone your resort to violence and understand why the fishery manager took the decision that he did. Again all I can say is that I am sorry it ever occured.

To be stuck in the middle of a situation where people you think well of do not seem to be able to get on is akward and embarrassing. People fight their often nasty and public battles when those who are friends to both sides are left voiceless and despairing.

You are a very fine angler Stephen and I have benefitted greatly from your time and patience and genorosity. Good luck in all things.

Michael

how many times is this guy going to get away with his blatant disregard for rules.i've lost count the number of times this guy is mentioned when cheating has occured.if i were the owner of this fishery i would think long and hard about his reputation as it seems they have sided with a cheat and banned someone for standing his ground (i don't condone what he done but angler a wasn't exactly helping the situation)in my eyes both should have been banned!!!!!not only is angler A now just a cheat it seems he likes to dish out threats of violence aswellas i stated in the 68 trout thread if this is the irish angling scene you can keep it!!!!!fishing for me is about peace and quiet a time to relax and time to be with your own thoughts without the hassles of violence etc!!!!!!

p.s i'm not having a dig at all irish anglers but the minority spoil it for the majority.

It's unfortunate to say competition fishing really is going through the mill of late. Something needs to be done to erradicate cheating and threatening behaviour from all sides!

This kind of display does no justice to our sport.

This angler, like the guy in the trout fisherman cheating storm, needs to be named & shamed.

I believe he had his own little cheating session at the troutmasters and has a long history of cheating from what i have heard and from more than one source.

There was alot going around about naming the guy who cheated in the troutmasters and he was named so why not this idiot?

Not only is he a cheat but also a violent moron.

For the sake of our sport the truth MUST come out.

Glad i don't competition fish in northen ireland as it seems that rules count for nothing.

This guy clearly lacks talent as clearly can't compete on a level playing field!!!

What a sad pathetic man!!!

Fair play to you Stephen for bring the truth to our attention!!

Hi Stephen,

First of all, can I say well done for coming on and giving the account, straight from the horses mouth and for admitting you failings. Fair play to you.

The vast majority of us will tell you that this sort of thing has no place in competition fishing and in angling in general.

Most of us in Northern Ireland and most comp anglers in the UK know very well who angler A is and it certainly is NOT the first, or second, or third time that he has been involved in similar incidents or indeed involved in dragging down the good name of competition angling.

But what annoys me more than anything else, is that Angler A is a decent angler in his own right, particulary when it comes to fishing for stocked fish. I cannot understand why this self confessed, high profile angler feels the need to continually bend or break rules to get an edge over his fellow competitors.

I fully understand, his friends, including FM standing up for him, but surely even they have to start asking certain questions.

Its about time that competition anglers as a whole, stand up against angler A, before yet another incident of this sort happens again and drags the good name of fly fishing in general, further into the gutter.

It's also an absolute disgrace that you were threatened during the competition and also when you returned home. I hope you reported the matter to the police.

Ive never met you Stephen, but ive heard plenty of good things about you. Ive been told that you are a quality angler with absolutely no past history of anything of this sort. You obviously can catch fish, seeing as you finished ahead of angler A on the day in question.

I hope you dont give up comp angling completly. If you did it would be understandable. I also hope that you stick around and enjoy this forum as there are many many great characters on here including many decent anglers on the competion circuit, particularly here in Ireland

OO

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